CWU Living History Project
Doris Jakubek
Lowther: Okay. Today we are interviewing Doris Jakubek and the interviewer is Larry Lowther and Ham Howard is running the equipment Doris, before we get into your career at Central I wonder if you d tell us a little bit about your background - your education, and any career you had before coming to Central?
Jakubek: Okay, I did my undergraduate work at what then was called Geneseo State College in New York State. It’s now part of the State University of New York system I taught in New York at Victor. New York and before that at Jasper New York which was a little town in the southern tier. I also worked for a while, three years I believe, for Houghton Mifflin Company as a consultant working with teachers on how to use the materials - particularly reading materials published by Houghton Mifflin Company Then I went to the University of Iowa for graduate work. Had an opportunity to teach in the laboratory school there which was a very good opportunity for graduate students. Taught full time and you also took courses and it was a rather grueling affair but it was lots of fun. That’s where I met my husband. He also was teaching in the laboratory schools in the social science department and I was in the elementary school. We left there in 1959 to go to Central.
Lowthec: What - did you come from a large family?
Jakubek: No, I had one brother who still lives in New York
Lowther: And what did your family do for a living’
Jakubek: My father was a small farmer. What in those days it was called market gardening. Various crops he took and sold in the public market in Buffalo. My brother was a nuclear physicist. Worked for - the name has gone - Carbide. Union Carbide Company for a number of years until he retired
Lowther: Were you the first woman m your family to get a college education
Jakubek: Yes, my mother had gone to a Normal School which back in those days. I think, was one year and had her teaching certificate but as far as graduating from a full four year institution or doing graduate work, I was the only one. My brother also graduated from college and had a PhD. in physics. So yeah, we were the only - father was an immigrant from Germany who told the story about sneaking across the Peace Bridge from Canada into Buffalo at the beginning of World War I wearing all of the clothes he had and whatever he could carry and so he was in a sense an illegal immigrant in the United States and my mother always told about how her friends were shocked when she announced that she was going to marry my father because he at that time was not an American citizen and the idea of not marrying an American citizen was a real shocking thing back in those days. Especially from
Lowther: How did you happen to come to Central?
Jakubek: Well, we were looking - Otto and I were looking for a place where they would hire both of us and we were looking at a time when husband and wile combinations were not particularly popular in colleges. I don’t know about other business. Central had openings in social science, geography particularly for Otto and they had an opening in the lab school also and we applied. Two different people were in charge of the interviewing and the application process and I’m fully convinced that they did not know that we were husband and wife even though we cross-referenced each time, you know as to family and so on. I think in those days they were called divisions. The social science division and I’m not sure what - where the ed department or the lab school came at that particular time but we corresponded with our respective people and they finally agreed to hire both of us and then some where along the way they did discover we were married and it was okay. I think we were the only married couple on the faculty when we came and we were in different divisions so I guess they felt that would be all right. No nepotism or whatever kind of thing that people were real concerned about then.
Lowther: What degrees did you have at that time?
Jakubek: I had a master’s in education and had most of my work done on a PhD. at Iowa.
Lowiher: Did you go on to finish the Phd?
Jakubek: We took a year off and we both went back and instead of finishing my degree I produced my second son so that got in the way of finishing my degree.
Lowther: Okay, you’re assignment then when you first came here was in the lab school and that - what did they call the lab school at that time? Do you remember’?
Jakubek: I think it was Hebeler.
Lowther: It was called the Hebeler.
Jakubek: Although I don’t remember when the name Hebeler was –
Lowther: Or was it just called College Elementary?
Jakubek: I think College Elementary at first. It was only after Amanda died. I think, that it became Hebeler School I was hired - We re talking from 1959 into the early 60’s.
Lowther: Okay. What year Do you remember what year you came?
Jakubek: 1959
Lowther: 1959, Okay.
Jakubek: And was assigned to teach third grade in the lab school
Lcwther: And how long did you stay with the lab school?
Jakubek: Now, I don’t remember. Several years. When the lab school went from being a full K-6 school as it was when I came to the early childhood education program and they changed it to preschool-grade 3. I wasn’t really interested in that aspect of education and so there was an opportunity to move in into the education department in my field of specialization which was reading and I took that opportunity then. I’m not sure of the date.
Lowther: Would that have been about the mid 60’s?
Jakubek: It probably was I don’t remember for sure
Lowther: And what was your assignment then in the ed department?
Jakubek: To teach reading courses and
Lowther: That is your specialty that you had prepared for?
Jakubek: That was my specialty at Iowa, yes. It was general elementary education with a heavy emphasis in reading and at that time the reading faculty was housed in a house right across from Hebeler School where Hertz Hall is now. There were at least three houses there that I think the University owned and that was the first - my first office.
Lowther: Was that right where that large green is today
Jakubek: Yes, right along in there. We were there for a few years and then Hertz was built and they tore the houses down and we were moved up to one of those little temporary buildings up near where the tennis courts on the mall is and again I don’t remember the name of it, but all of the reading faculty and a few other ed department members were housed in that building.
Lowther: Before we get too far in to your career in the ed department. I’d like to talk a little bit about the College Elementary experiment – experience, excuse me. What did you see as the function of the College Elementary School at that time?
Jakubek: I think basically it had two functions. One was to provide observation experiences for education department faculty. They would bring their class over and we’d teach a lesson in a particular area. Whatever area they wanted. It also allowed for observation experiences on their own by students who - they could come over whenever they wanted to. We also did some work with student teachers at primary levels who wanted to stay in Ellensburg or in some cases remember they were somewhat difficult to place for one reason or another and so they were assigned to us So basically those functions
Lowther: Did the elementary school engage in much educational research at that time?
Jakubek: Not very much at that time I think we thought of our function or the general philosophy was to demonstrate for future teachers There was some experimentation going on. People were trying different things- trying out new materials and things of that son but no clear cut direction toward research and such.
Lowther: You don’t recall whether you were part of the division of education and psychology.
Jakubek: I’ve been trying to remember that. There was a really close tie with them because the ed department faculty would schedule observation sessions and student teachers and such but I don’t believe at that time it came directly or at least at first was directly under the education department.
Lowther: But you feel you had a good working relationship with the education people and psychology people and so on?
Jakubek: Yes, yes.
Lowther: Okay. How do you feel - what do you recall as tile relationship between the College Elementary faculty and just the general faculty of the college, you know. People in non-education fields arid so on.
Jakubek: Actually, we didn’t have a lot of contact as I remember. We operated on the public school year. We started right after Labor Day in the fall and ceased when the public school year was over and our vacations coincided with the public school vacations and such. I don’t remember at that time having very much contact with people outside the elementary school or perhaps the education department
Lowther: Did you ever as of that time, did you ever think there would be a time when there would be no College Elementary School?
Jakubek: Oh, there were- there was always talk of that whenever the budget was tight and some problems like that there was some talk of doing away with it. There were, I think, some people generally on campus who felt that the lab school had no function and that certainly we shouldn’t have rank. That’s one thing I do remember. The idea that we had college rank.
Lowther: You were associate, assistant - assistant, associate?
Jakubek: I started as an assistant and I don’t think I became an associate while I was there. We all were ranked as assistant at least. It was perceived at least by us as a permanent faculty position. There were a lot of people who thought that it shouldn’t be. When it switched to the K-3 or preschool-3 operation then the faculty became non- tenured in a sense - not permanent faculty. They did not have rank at that point as I recall.
Lowther: Where did most of your students come from? Children?
Jakubek: Most of them. I think, as I recall were faculty children. I remember a lot of
faculty children in my class. Anyone who wanted to send their child to the school
Lowther: Anyone within the city of Ellensburg?
Jakubek: Yes. And I don’t know, we might have had children from outside of the city. But it was treated by the public schools, at least as another elementary school and of course when they finished sixth grade they transferred down to Morgan into what was called junior high and now is called middle school.
Lowther: What was your relationship with the Ellensburg school system?
Jakubek: Again, not a whole lot. We didn’t go to faculty meetings. We got directives and bulletins and such from them. The public schools furnished hot lunch that was delivered as it is delivered to the other elementary schools in Ellensburg but don’t recall knowing many of the elementary teachers in the district at that time. I got to know them better later as I was working in the ed department and involved with students in the schools.
Lowther: Were the teaching techniques that you used in the College Elementary pretty much the same kinds of teaching methods as were used in the general public system?
Jakubek: No, I think we were a lot more - had a lot more freedom to try things - to experiment if you will in a very informal kind of way. We certainly had a much more relaxed atmosphere as far as discipline was concerned. In fact, if there was any problems with the public school occasionally they’d accuse us of not being strict enough with the kids. Encouraged a lot of freedom and writing and literary kinds of things.
Lowther: Creativity?
Jakubek: Creativity- a beg emphasis on creativity and allowed kids to make a lot of decisions for themselves where public school tended to be - teachers tended to make more decisions for the kids and so our kids were very vocal verbal - able to argue their case and stand up for themselves. We thought it was much healthier for them to be that way and we encouraged that kind of a thing.
Lowther: Was there a strong sense of collegiality in the elementary faculty’
Jakubek: By and large.
Lowther: Got along well with each other?
Jakubek: Most of the time. I can remember a couple of teachers who had a very different philosophy that didn’t seem to fit so well but by and large we were a pretty cohesive group.
Lowther: Do you have in mind any teachers that you regarded as just outstanding?
Jakubek: One that I remember and again I have a hard time remembering that far back but Roy Wilson and I worked very closely together. We did a lot of things. We shared our classes and did a lot of things together. And Barbara Kohler of course in first grade - or kindergarten. She always made me feel like a kindergarten youngster when we talked. I did respect her very highly but I always had the feeling that I was about at the level of one of her kindergarten kids when she explained things to me. But those two I remember particularly. One that I remember with less fondness is Grace Armstrong who really didn’t fit in that setting. She was much more- ran a much more teacher directed classroom. Kids toed the mark and I - she taught second grade and I taught third grade and I could see at the beginning of the year how different the children were when they came to me and how I remembered my previous years class was at the end of the year. lt took a while to get used to the tact that I let a lot of things go by that Grace hadn’t. She had a much stricter ship than I did.
Lowther: Do you - who was your principal or director m not sure of the true they had.
Jakubek: I think it was principal at first and then later became director There were two or three of them during the time that I was there. Interesting thing on that was that I interviewed for the job in Chicago. I had to go into Chicago from Iowa City and I never heard from this person again and this went on for most of the summer and I didn’t know whether I had a job or not even though he had sounded like I did have the job, but I had nothing in writing later found out that he had left during the summer and someone else had come in and you know, things got lost along the way. One I do remember is Dick Covington and there were a couple of others in there but I think Dick was there maybe most of the time
Lowther: You left before Bill Gaskell took over?
Jakubek: No, no. Bill was there, yes at the end of the time. Because he moved to the education department also after he had been over there. But yes, he was principal part of the time that I was there.
Lowther: Was there - in terms of getting back to the children again was there a waiting list for children to get into the school Were there more applicants than you had spaces or - do you remember?
Jakubek: I don’t really recall. We did keep the classes perhaps smaller than the public schools and whether that was- I think it was probably from choice of the schools that we have smaller classes to work with but I don’t recall there being any waiting lists
Lowther: Were you encouraged to take part in professional associations?
Jakubek: Oh yeah and most of us did - belonged to our respective professional organizations. I’d always been a member of the Reading Association and went to conferences whenever we could. We were encouraged to do that.
Lowther: Was it easy to get travel money to go to conferences?
Jakubek: Early days it was. A lot of us I know went on our own. Back in those days it was deductible to go to professional meetings - deductible on your income tax. Just one thing I wanted to mention, this idea of sexism that was prevalent in the early days. When they finally got around to offering both Otto and me jobs I was offered a hundred dollars a year. I think it was a hundred dollars a year less than Otto was
Lowther: Same rank?
Jakubek: Same rank. I was told that the reason for this was that President McConnell did not believe that a woman should earn more than her husband and it didn’t bother Otto and me. Actually I was better prepared fix my job than Otto was for his as far as experiences concerned in teaching He had never done any college teaching before he came and I had years of experience at the elementary school and then I don’t know that - McConnell left very soon after we came and Perry Mitchell became acting president for a year and so whenever shortly after that I went to him and explained my financial situation and I didn’t think it was quite fair and he agreed that it wasn’t so. I got a raise so I was making more money compared to my rank and experience than I had gotten originally. But when people talk about sexism and such, I always tell that story because it so dearly reflects the attitude toward women working about thirty years ago or more. Thirty-five years ago.
Lowther: Okay. Now moving to your experience in the ed department You spent the rest of your career was in the ad department?
Jakubek: Yes
Lowther: What year did you retire?
Jakubek: ‘88 1988
Lowther: Okay. What - you taught only reading classes?
Jakubek: No, I taught some other things as well. Sometimes “Introduction to Education”. Taught “Childrens Literature”, “Language Arts” but basically reading courses and as we developed a stronger master’s program then a lot of my work was with graduate students arid theses advisement and such.
Lowther: Was that a big part of your assignment working with graduate students?
Jakubek: Yes, probably because I taught required courses in the master’s program and also I liked to work with graduate students and I was always willing to work with them if I could.
Lowther: How about the size of your classes? We’re talking now from about the middle 60s on to the end of your career. Did you have by and large classes? Did it vary over time?
Jakubek: I suppose it did. There were times when they were very large and we had a lot of sections of certain classes One of the things that we did in reading was to take the students into the public schools and do one on one tutoring in reading and because It required that our classes be no larger than the public school classes we worried that the basic reading classes down to a manageable size. As far as numbers I really couldn’t say. Sometimes they were larger than others.
Lowiher: But you didn’t have a feeling of being overwhelmed by students?
Jakubek: No not in the basic courses - the reading courses and such that I taught. Sometimes the language arts classes got large but there again we met in a room that had tables because one of the things we had to teach them was how to write property and we couldn’t have any more in that room than the number of tables. So that was a factor that limited the enrollment. I think when I did leach the few introductory courses that I taught classes were larger then
Lowther: Okay. Were you the only reading specialist in the department or were there others?
Jakubek: No
Lowther: How many of them were there?
Jakubek: There were about five of us, I think. Azella Taylor was- in fact she was instrumental in talking me into coming over to the ed. department to teach reading. Much of the time that I was there Helen Rodgers was also there. Cal Greatsinger, Joe Schomer and there were a couple of others that were there a year or so and then left for one reason or another and I don’t remember - Doug Boron was one of them and there may have been some others. But those were the basic four so there were about five of us.
Lowiher: How was the ed. department - are we talking department now or had the division system been done away with by the time you got there.
Jakubek: Shortly after. It was - it was the division of education and philosophy and psychology first and then somewhere in there they split and maybe when the new psychology building was built. I don’t remember but I know one of the first chairs of the division when was there was Maury Pettit and so that would have been before the split.
Lowther: Then - do you remember who the first chair of the department of education was?
Jakubek: No, I don’t.
Lowther: You don’t know who preceded Con Potter?
Jakubek: No. that I don’t remember.
Lowther: Okay.
Jakubek Um. I should. It could have been Ham.
Howard: No.
Jakubek: I don’t really remember. The only chair - the first chair I really remember is Con Potter.
Lowther: How was the department organized? Did you reading teachers function as a kind of a sub-department? Was there a head of your group?
Jakubec: Yes.
Lowther: How was that person chosen?
Jakubek: By the members of the group. We referred to ourselves and I guess they were referred to generally in the department as the reading committee and we selected among ourselves on a rotation basis somebody who was the chair and other faculty within the department were organized in that same way.
Lowther: Did that committee chair have any particular authority over the others?
Jakubek: Well no. Other than I think that person served perhaps more as a liaison with the department chair and then later there was something called the executive committee in the department where heads of various faculty in the department served as an advisor to the department chair but depending on times there were various ways that this was organized. The reading committee was pretty constant in working together as a group in developing programs and courses and things of that sort. We tended to get along really well that way.
Lowther: Did you have frequent department meetings? Faculty meetings?
Jakubelc: Initially, I think, we probably had frequent ones. Later on they became less frequent and toward the end they occurred only about maybe quarterly when the student teacher supervisors were on campus as far as our whole department meeting together
Lowther: So a lot of the decisions were being made by the executive committee and the chair?
Jakubek: A lot of them being made that way. Yes. And the person from each of the divisions was supposed to represent the will of the - of their members. There was not a reading committee person on the executive committee and again that was called different things at different times. Coordinating committee, executive committee, I don’t remember what all else but there was an elementary education division. That and special ed and early childhood school administration and then they all - the student teaching supervisor also.
Lowther: How was the department chair chosen?
Jakubek: By committee I think. Well, again, I’m not sure. The last one we had that
- when I was there was selected by a selection committee made up of members in the department. I guess that probably was the case with others.
Lowther. But did the entire department vote?
Jakubek: Yes.
Lowther: On whether to accept or reject the candidate?
Jakubek: Yes.
Lowther: But there would be a smaller group that would screen candidates and make a recommendation?
Jakubek: Yeah, as I recall and served on one of those committees that remember. We went through the applications and picked out certain ones to interview and brought them on campus if they were off campus people from some place other than the University.
Lowther: Do you ever remember a time when the department - the faculty rejected the choice of the selection committee? Or did the selection committee present more than one candidate?
Jakubek: Presented three and the division - or the department voted on them. At least that’s what I remember as the case on the committee - the situation which I was on the committee and I suspect that was done for other ones too. Sometimes the chair was chosen from within the department and at least two occasions that I remember they were chosen from outside the department from someplace other than Central.
Lowther: How well did the faculty get along with the chair?
Jakubek: That’s kind of hard to answer because it would depend on the chair and Lowther: Do you have in your memory any chairs that you regard as just outstanding?
Jakubek: A couple, yes. There was almost sort of an antagonism within the department. I think. It was sort of we against them kind of feeling. Maybe left over from the days when this was a normal school or teacher’s school.
Lowther: Who are the “them”?
Jakubek: The rest of campus.
Lowther: Okay
Jakubek: The ed department viewed themselves perhaps as more important to the scheme of things then they were generally held by the campus.
Lowiher: Do you think there was the feeling that - that the position of the ed department was being threatened by the rest of campus?
Jakubek: Very definitely. As more and more departments hired faculty who were educationists in their particular field like math education and science ed and -
Lowther: History ed.
Jakubek: History ed. Yes. And more and more people like that began to take over what many of the people in the department felt was their total prerogative. They had - they were the only ones who had the right to teach teachers.
Lowther: Is your memory of the relationship between the ed department and the rest of the campus one of friction, of constant friction?
Jakubek: Well, I don’t know it would be strong to say that but there was this - I never felt any problems. I wasn’t threatened by that but certainly some of the department chairs didn’t do anything to improve.
Lowther: Do you remember any of the particular issues that were being argued about?
Jakubek: One of them as I say those teaching the methods courses.
Lowther: These are mostly secondary methods courses?
Jakubek: Yes, although science ed was for elementary as well. There also was a problem with who should supervise student teachers. Again, particularly in the secondary because they would be specialists. There was some feeling that the ed department supervisors should do it and that in some other academic areas, for example music perhaps felt that they were better qualified to supervise student teachers than a sort of generalist elementary - or generalist education supervisor could and there was some of that.
Lowther: How was this resolved?
Jakubek: Well I don’t know. See I’ve been out for what eight years now and I’m not sure what -
Lowther: Do you remember what the practice was while you were there?
Jakubek: Okay
Lowther: Did you share with the academic departments?
Jakubek: Yes, I think so. They were - it was a matter of expenses. One of me problems was a matter of expenses. Who was going to pay for the supervisor to go out and I think one of the things that was tried at least was that the departmental specialist would observe at least once during the quarter they were student teaching and the rest of the supervision would be done by the education supervisor. But I’m not positive on that. But I know there were cases where somebody from the specialization department did go out and observe student teachers.
Lowther: Okay did you serve on the teacher ed - the campus teacher ed committee which later became council?
Jakubek: Yes. It was council when I served on it. Yes.
Lowther: So that would have been in 1970’s?
Jakubek: 80’s.
Lowther: 80’s. Did you serve on it for quite a number of years?
Jakubek: I don’t know whether I served more than one term or not. I was chair of it one year and - but Otto had been on it for a number of years and we decided that both of us applying to be on the same committee maybe wasn’t such a smart thing so while he was on it I never did apply to be on that committee. But yes, I served on that.
Lowther: Are there any particular things that stick out in your mind concerning the work of the teacher ed. council or any of the disputes that were - came before the council? Is it - do you have a vivid memory of the council or is it kind of –
Jakubek: No not terribly vivid I always thought there were people on the council
who really didn’t belong on the council because of their - their lack of background and understanding of teacher education. Very naive about what teaching was all about. And there were not many of those. Most of them I felt were very concerned I was on when Ross Byrd was - well he was on it and he was also chair, I think when at first went on it but I always admired his diligence In digging into things and being sure that people did their homework and particularly curriculum proposals that were sometimes rather sloppily prepared when they were brought to the council and should have never even gotten out of the department and I’ve got to admit some of them were out of the ed department. And his diligence in seeing that they were property prepared and that they didn’t conflict or contradict some of the things that were en existence. I really admired him for his ability to do that.
Lowther: Did you serve on any other campus wide committees or councils?
Jakubek: I was on the faculty senate for at least one term a number of years ago. I was on the sabbatical leave committee several times. I liked that one because you did all of your work in the fall. Then you were finished for the rest of the year (laughs). It was a nice committee to be on. In fact I served on that for several - several different terms. I don t recall any other campus committees I was on.
Lowther: Did you think the faculty senate was very effective as a faculty body on cam pus?
Jakubek: At the time that I was on it. I didn’t feel that it was. I’m not sure they had - very much their existence had a lot of power and I don’t know what the situation is now. Did a lot of talk and not much action was what I felt about it much of the time that I served and when I heard about it. You know after I was out of it.
Lowiher: How did the faculty senate relate to the administration? Did the administration dominate it?
Jakubek: You mean chose the faculty senate?
Lowther: No, not in terms of choosing. In terms of controlling the agenda and influencing decisions.
Jakubek: I really can’t say. I wasn’t in on enough to really know how- you know from rumor kinds of things which you hear all of the time.
Lowther: In your career, do you remember having much of a relationship with the top administration of the College - University? With the president, provost vice president for academic affairs? Were you much aware of their presence?
Jakubek: Not directly. More of it through what other people said. I don’t think that I ever met - was introduced to the former president.
Lowther: Garitty?
Jakubek: Yes, I knew Jim Brooks a lot better. Well, partly I had his children in Hebeler School long years ago. I knew him - respected him very much during that time I personally thought he did a very good job during very difficult times. During the 70’s and so on. As far as the vice president and provost, probably because of working with committees within the department and such had more contact with him and certainly the dean of graduate studies was always a person I worked with again because of my role with the graduate students.
Lowther: How about the dean of professional studies?
Jakubek: Oh yeah. Yes. Naturally I had a lot to do with him.
Lowther: Do you remember any what you would regard as outstanding deans?
Jakubek: I think - most of the time that I remember Jimmy Applegate was the dean and he also worked in the department. He was not in terrible favor with many of the people in the department but I always liked him.
Lowther: Why was that?
Jakubek: Well one of the things that people said was that he had agreed - he took over as acting dean after John -
Lowther: Green?
Jakubek: John Green resigned from that position and I had heard that he said that he would just - that he would not apply for the job. He would just do it as a temporary basis until they hired someone else. Apparently they weren’t successful the first time around and the second time around he applied and was selected for the position and there were some people in the department who never forgave him for doing that. He went against his orders or some such thing I didn’t - I don’t know anything about that. That was just what I was told by people who thought they knew about it. But I liked Jimmy and I thought that he did everything he could to help the department. The fact that he did not get along with the chairs terribly well or they didn’t get along with him probably wasn’t good for the department but I thought I thought he was fair.
Lowther: Would you like to comment on any of the chairs who you served under?
Jakutek: Who’s going to listen to this tape?
Lowther: Researchers mostly if you’d rather not?
Jakubek: I always thought that Con Potter was ??? and - well I liked him personally as an individual I - he was too combative to be a successful department chair, I feel.
Lowther: Do you think that fact had anything to do with his being chosen as chair? Jakubek: I think so originally but then I don’t think it worked.
Lowther: You know, you were talking about a me/them kind of situation and so you think that Con was brought on board in order to protect the department and the program?
Jakubek: I think they wanted somebody from outside at that time too. Not somebody from the ranks of the department or the University and he was an aggressive administrator but I also think he was perhaps too aggressive for the role and was not a peacemaker as - which I think we needed.
Lowther: Did he get along well with his own faculty?
Jakubek: With some very well and with others not. If there was a woman in the department that woman automatically became the secretary of the committee kind of thing and he would have denied greatly that he had any sexual biases but he did
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