CWU Living History Project

Dean Nicholson

INTERVIEWER: Milo Smith

Smith: It is May 1st, 1996, and in the process of continuing the Living History project, we have today as an interviewee, Dean Nicholson, now living in Yakima, but for many years, significantly outstanding member of the faculty as basketball coach, and friend to a lot of people. Dean, in order to open this interview, would you give us an outline of your auto-biography. Starting with, you were born where and when?

Dean: I was born in Seattle. My dad was a high school teacher and coach at Bothell High School from 25 through 29, after graduating from the University of Washington. went to Law School, but got turned into coaching one way or another and never did practice law. He did graduate from Law School at the University of Washington. And we moved here in 1929. My dad was basketball coach, assistant football coach to Roy Sandburg, he was the football coach at that time, better known as “Sandy”. A real colorful athletic figure through those years. And raised, attended Ellensburg Public Schools, Ellensburg High School, graduated in 1944, was in the Navy for two years, came back and attended Central for all the other (?). The Class of 44 was a humongous class. We had about four or five high school graduating classes backed up that all entered college in 46. And participated in basketball, baseball, played some tennis from 46 to 50. . .graduated in 50. I was Student Body President in 1950. And my first teaching job was at Puyallap High School. I was there from 1950 to 1964. 1 taught math, I had a math, year of math, major through Naval Training, I was in Naval Officer Training Program. I was a P.E. major while at Central, hut I taught math. algebra, and P.E. and the coaching job, basketball and baseball. Then was hired by Jim Brooks, Abe Poffenroth who was the Chairman of the P.E. Department, Everett Irish Director of the P.. program, Adrian Beamer was the Athletic Director. And Joined a great staff at Central in 1964. And remained in that position, coached basketball all those years, coached baseball one year, just as a fill-in, and coached tennis eight or ten years during that time, and until 1990.

Smith: Now, Dean, as a student basketball player, if you can recall, what was the nature of the basketball program at the time? Did it have, warrant attention?

Dean: My dad had a great career here. Won over 500 games, and was here from ‘29 until 64, but as we later found out, had a physical problem and was later diagnosed as a brain tumor, and the program was down a little (?) in his last three or four years, understandably so.

Smith: What kind of a record did the team have on which you played?

Dean: We had four excellent years.. .roughly, won about seventy-five per cent of our games. Only won the District Title our last year in 1950. And went to Kansas City for the NAIA Nationals and got to the quarter finals that year. I don’t remember actual won-loss records of those years, but we had winning teams all those years. My dad had several other good years, too. My dad and I hold a distinct record, I think we’re the winningest family, basketball coaching team, in the history of basketball, Division I included. We won over 1100 games between us. Took a lot of years to do that. From ‘29 up to 90, but to my knowledge it is a record for a family.

Smith: Now, Dean, you may not be able to remember all of the details of what I’m going to ask you, but since I have been a totally avid basketball fan, and certainly a fan of the Nicholson program, we enjoyed a tremendous number of excellent, excellent basketball teams here at Central, would you review some of the record that you have attained as attained as a coach for basketball at Central9

Dean: We started out kind of shaky, I think we were about five hundred, my first year, the 1964-65 team...had some good basketball players, some great young men on that team, and they’ve got a special place in my heart for getting things started. Mel Cox was here, he was a Sophomore my first year. My dad did a lot of great things for me, and certainly one of the better ones, speaking directly in the coaching field, Mel Cox was a great basketball player, a great small college post-man. And I was fortunate enough to have two players who I’d coached at Puyallap High School on that first team, Jim Clifton and Bill Kelly, both went on to become outstanding high school coaches in their own rights. And Eddie Smith, from Aberdeen was on that team, and Dave (?), and... That team coming back after January, put together about 17 straight wins and won the District title and went to Kansas City. Lost in our first round back there, but we did make it back, and that started a string, I think we had 22 District Titles, trips to Kansas City out of those twenty-six years I was here. I was very fortunate, certainly very happy to be a part of all that. It took a lot of good players and a lot of fine young men to compile that record.

Smith: Dean, those of us who watched the program grow, through the years, became very, very aware that, as a basketball coach, you had developed a technique and a practice of recruiting, if that’s the right word, recruiting athletes whom other people had by-passed. Recruiting athletes whom some might have considered were too old to be involved in an athletic program. I can think back over many young men that developed under you and who were significant to the program. What was the “Dean Nicholson Mystique” in developing these young men who had been by-passed by other schools, and you took them and molded them into good teams?

Dean: We took our situation, where we’re at, and what we had, the where-withal we had to work with, which wasn’t a whole lot, non-scholarship, the G.I. Bill entered in there with several of those older kids. The NAIA had a more lenient five year rule than the NCAA did, I can’t quote the whole history of it exactly when all that occurred, but for a long time NCAA had a five year calendar rule, a kid started college, he had five years to complete his eligibility, whether he was in school, out of school, whatever. Very few exceptions to that. NAIA had the same rule, but the only time the count-down occurred was, for when the student was in school. So students could drop-out, work, whatever, come back and have he still have whatever was remaining before he left. and through contacts, we weren’t able to recruit the high school stars, so to speak, those highly sought by the big schools and the other schools, so we worked more with what was left, and we were very fortunate. They had special ability, I enjoyed working with that type of boy. Dave Bennedict would stick out. Dave was 27 when he finished playing. He had been in the Navy, laid out of school. A joy to watch, and a real success story. He graduated, School teacher in Gig Harbor. Two fine children, really a successful person.

Smith: Now there were some instances when you had all players here at Central, who were not at all from the Pacific-Northwest. How in the devil do you trace down people, such as the Adams Brothers?

Dean: When I first came here in 64, and during that time, I don’t know exactly how long it would have, it went through the rest of the sixties and early seventies, the Community Colleges in the state recruited heavily out of state. Yakima Valley, got a lot of players from Washington D.C. and Los Angeles. (?)... The Adams Brothers who were on the best team record-wise that we ever had, both had been in the Army and some way or another had ended up at Skagit Valley Community College and we did not recruit them directly out of Skagit Valley, but Paul had gone to Weber State and that hadn’t worked out, and he’d come back and through, I had a lot of friends, fortunately, who were in coaching, or I knew, through a contact, I knew his coach at Skagit and he mentioned that Paul was back from Weber State and one phone call and we went and got him that day and he was all ready the next day. And he came and Mitch came and both Paul and Mitch have a special place in my heart. Both came in without a lot of academic accomplishment. Mitch could not even get in school. He came out here from Michigan and his wife and young child got here and got settled in the housing and found out he could not be admitted. He had to commute to Yakima Valley College the entire Fall Quarter. The first year. It was pretty touchy. We almost lost him, but his wife got a job, and he was able to enter school that January and, of course, they both became great players for us.

Smith: Both graduated?

Dean: Mitch went on and got his Masters from Indiana, at the University, and has a tremendous job with the Xerox Corporation in Rochester, New York. Very successful. Paul is a Vice-principal in Grand Rapids High School. Another success story. So that was really one for our basketball program (?).

Smith: Now obviously, you have kept track of a considerable number of the young men who were significant in your life. Would you mind relating for the history, the where-about of some of your other ball players that people may recall?

Dean: I mentioned Jim Clifton was on our first team. He’s basketball coach and athletic director at Puyallap High School, has been for several years. Bill Kelly, another one of those members off that first team was a very successful basketball coach at East Valley, Cashmere High School. He’s now a middle school principal in Blame, Washington. Doing very well. Eddie Smith, off that team is a teacher in Kent area. Oh, I’ll certainly leave some people out of this.

Smith: Allen from Yakima.

Dean: Dave Allen, a great guard, winner of the Hustle Award. He is the director of Physical Education in the Toppenish Schools. Coached for a while and is out of coaching now, but is still in Physical Education. Mel Cox, he’s athletic director and teacher at Eatonville High School, had a long coaching career.

Smith: George Bender.

Dean: George Bender, who’s in business here in Ellensburg. Graduated, but he did not teach and coach. A lot of them, obviously, were drawn into the teaching-coaching field where a lot of them were very successful. Ed Rogel was another. He has a substantial position with the Weyerhouser Corporation. Joe DeLuca, off our 1970 team. Managing Editor of the Washington Horse Breeder’s Magazine. He was very successful in that profession. I don’t have numbers, nor at the time did I keep graduation records or anything of that type, but a lot of very successful people out there.

Smith: Now, Dean, other than your life as a basketball coach, I’m sure that you often times also carried a load of classes that you taught. What were those kinds of classes?

Dean: I taught mostly activity courses. I taught a lot of tennis, I was a tennis player, liked tennis. I taught basketball, P.E. classes, I taught basketball theory, the coaching of basketball. A couple of others, basic Physical Education courses. That’s all changed now. By now I mean the past three or four years, the coaches in the Department do not teach. They were hired solely as coaches. It’s been real lucrative or advantageous for them. But they are not tenured faculty members, don’t have the benefits, as such, but during my career we all taught and I was blessed to work with a tremendous group of coaches. Tom Parry, best friend and colleague for a lot of years Mel Thompson was here when I first came. He was from the University of Washington.

Smith: You might be interested to know that Tom Parry referred to you as his best friend.

Dean: Well, good. That’s a mutual feeling. Spike Arlt was a football assistant and track coach. Bob Gregson wrestling coach for so many years. Eric Beardsley preceded me here, longtime friend, we went to school together. (?) coach for so many years. Art Hutton, who has passed away, but was an outstanding track coach for a lot of years. And we had a great camaraderie and it wasn’t just limited to the Physical Education staff Yourself included, Milo. You remember (?) the music people, Wayne Hertz and my father, Leo, were very close friends. In fact Wayne used to sit on the bench in basketball games. There was that much fellowship between my dad and Wayne and John Moawad and there were many others, I remember hearing you make a comment at lunch one day. We were lucky we were people in the trenches of the educational system. I enjoyed being a part of that. There were some great people to work with and it just made Central what it is.

Smith: Now what was your academic rank when you were hired, Dean’?

Dean: Let’s see, What’s the lowest one9

Smith: Instructor.

Dean: No, I wasn’t an Instructor. I was an Assistant Professor. I had my Master’s. I had come back to Central in the middle fifties and gotten my Master’s, so I was an Assistant Professor.

Smith: And what was your rank when you left?

Dean: I was a full professor upon retirement.

Smith: Making sure that we have on tape, the year you arrived at Central as a student was?

Dean: 1946.

Smith: You left as a student?

Dean: 1950.

Smith: 1950. Then you came back to Central as a faculty member in 64.

Dean: 64.

Smith: . . .and you stayed through ‘90.

Dean: Right.

Smith: OK, we’ve got that on tape now. What other schools have you ever attended,

Dean’? Did you? Other than Central.

Dean: Not full time. I did part time piece work, a couple of courses from Oregon State, Seattle Pacific, University of Washington, I took a class from Western Washington.

Smith: Now, it would be inevitable that a coach with your record of having developed ball players, and developed them into teams that were winners, it would be inevitable that other schools would look at you as being a very desirable hire-in. Did you occasionally find that other schools were tapping you on the shoulder and saying would you be interested in coming here?

Dean: I was a candidate and interviewed for several other jobs over the entire, my entire career. I was one of the final three interviewees at the University of Washington, 1 can’t think of the year, and Marv Harshman was hired from Washington State. I applied at Washington State one year. I almost went to the University of Montana at one time, but I really had desires to move up the ladder (7)..., but nothing ever materialized, but obviously would have taken the University of Washington job had it been offered, hut it was not, so I did not go there, or the Washington State job. (?) I was very happy at Central.

Smith: Well, many of us who were fans of your program and of yours, were afraid that you, at any moment were going to be called to serve at some other school, and we wanted you to continue, we were a little selfish in that...

Dean: I appreciate that.

Smith: Now, since there was no scholarship program for athletes at Central, were you able to substitute work programs so athletes could work part time to earn tuition and fees.

Dean: Certainly not a high powered work program, but work was available. And then of course financial aid, and I don’t know just what the history of the financial aid program would be. (?) That was a factor starting right away. And this certainly affected our recruiting. We found that if we were talking to a student athlete who qualified for financial aid, he could get a good share of his education paid for. One who did not, from a medium or upper income family, nothing was available. So, obviously, we were more attractive to the lower income kids, and in many cases a lot of our black kids, most of our black kids came under this category Ended up here, Probably had black players (7) There just weren’t many black players among our opponents, and (?)we had black players successfully, Mitch and Paul Allen. They started out Theartis Wallace, another great player out of Richland area. Probably started a trend and was certainly a big part in our basketball success over the years.

Smith: Now, did you feel that through all of your years of coaching here at Central, you were well supported by the Administration?

Dean: Yes, Jim Brooks was the President, and we went to school together and I think Jim graduated in 1949 from Central. And he certainly was very supportive, and other administrators, not to a man, but for the most part, were very supportive. The faculty and family, superb. I couldn’t ask for any more, and that pretty much held true. Other than (7) in administration when I was, well, I retired-slash-was fired in 1990 and I felt I was betrayed.

Smith: Many people did.

Dean: All in all, and still feel that way today.

Smith: Other than President Brooks, who do you name strong superiors to you who you felt were significant and helping to establish the basketball program at Central? Athletic Directors?

Dean: Bink Beamer, of course. Gary Frederick had been a co-coach. He had been the baseball coach when he first came and then quickly moved up the ladder and he was one who I felt was a big time betrayer, so I wouldn’t classify him as a friend or supporter. John Liboky was probably one of the best friends and a great person and he did yeoman work in the financial aid office, and that was a tough job. And we felt, as I mentioned before, most of our scholarship aid was through the financial aid office, and he was great, as were the people, all the people in the financial aid office. I’m leaving out several key people I’m certain.

Smith: How about people in your program? Who was your equipment man for most of those years?

Dean: Chuck Rues. We did not have a full time equipment man when I first came. Gary Smith, I should have mentioned was a trainer, came shortly after I had arrived in the late 6O’s and traveled with him for most of my twenty-six years here. And then Tom Heaverlo, who has passed away was our equipment man following Chuck, and Art Powell was my last years, a joy to work with and the most witty gentleman you could ever be involved with, and he was here the last few years of my career.

Smith: Now, to involve ourselves in some less than pleasant memories, can you recall any significant which arose between students and faculty that became of considerable concern to you as a coach and instructor?

Dean: Differences..?

Smith: Between students and faculty, students and administration. Thinking back towards, for example, the Viet Nam years with a certain amount of unrest with sit-ins in the hallway outside the President’s office, and the sit-ins over at the R.O.T.C. Building.

Dean: I remember Ron Simms, he was either Student Body President or...

Smith: He was.

Dean: He was Student Body President, and now a councilman, or a very successful politician as well. And, yes, that was a, I know a tough time for Dr. Brooks and the Administration because it was a time of unrest and, for the most part, I thought Central had a very unified student body. THAT would certainly be the exception, I think that was true on just about every campus in the country at that time.

Smith: Now, we will be moving into a list of topics about which if you had any opinion, or attitude, would you please share with us. Concerning first the salary schedule at Central Pause... I’m trying to pump. Do you think you’re salary through the years was equal to, better than, less than, competitive with salaries of coaches with teaching assignments in comparable schools in the state?

Dean: I would have to say, no. I think we were pretty (?) hurting. I would have been much better off financially, and my wife has reminded me of this, had I stayed right at Puyallap High School, and stayed on that salary schedule and I think (?)Well, it’s certainly true now. The coaching situation the way it is. I’ve talked to ex-players who are out coaching and have been out there ten or twelve years, they boggle my mind with the type of money they’re making. I think that has really improved in the public schools. No, I think we were.. .1 felt I was rewarded through my promotion to Associate Professor and then finally Professor. That helped the later part of my career here I certainly can’t fault that, but through most of it, and not just the coaches, it was a labor of love, so to speak.

Smith: Now, did you have any opportunity to be concerned with the faculty code in your years as an instructor and coach?

Dean: (?)

Smith: Well, what was your feeling concerning academic freedom on this campus from all the years you were here?

Dean: That, probably, was not in the mainstream of that, but I wasn’t involved with that.

Smith: Well, now there’s another kind of freedom that you could have been involved with, and I think we ought to at least venture into that area, did you feel under great pressure from any source to win, win, win, to play certain ball players, and not play certain ball players. Were there people backstage, if you will, who were dictating to you, or were trying to dictate to you?

Dean: No, I never felt that.

Smith: No powerful Alumni?

Dean: You know, there were always some parents, of course, on the college situation (?) that had a (?) high school situation (?), but ..(?) there was tremendous pressure to win, but that was, that came from within, especially after we started to be successful, and better players came here, and they had a tradition to uphold, so to speak. Yeah, we very definitely felt the crowds were better, expectations were better, I think there was an element in town, (?)small town that, I don’t know how to say this, a cowboy element, a farm element, that they, a red neck element, I think this was never directly presented to me, but they felt had too many black players.

Smith: Oh, yes.

Dean: And I’m sure that was a concern with some people.

Smith: At the same time, that that probably was true as you indicate, I can think of no one in my thirty-five years at Central that did more to help to improve the “town-gown” relationship than Dean Nicholson. These town’s people down here thought the world of you and admired you and respected you, and I can still remember that gymnasium rocking with town’s people night after night after night, and of course, now days, the relationship between town and gown is a little bit touchy at this time. But certainly you must have felt that your program was pretty good glue to help to cement together the disparate nature of town and gown.

Dean: And, of course, I had an ingrown advantage. I was one of them.

Smith: Uhm hum.

Dean: I was raised here. I went to Ellensburg High School. I played basketball with them. I’d gone to school with a lot of the town’s people, played ball with them, knew the families, so that certainly was an advantage. And I maintained that town connection by the things I still miss, coming back, Webster’s smoke house was a unique establishment. Of course, there were, spirits were served in the back, I’m not talking about that end. Morning, daily coffee, and there were some real characters, and it was a neat place to go.

Smith: Do you have any feelings , or attitude about Central’s building naming policies?

Dean: I think it meant a great deal to my father and my mother and my entire family to have the pavilion named after my dad. It gave us a lot of pride and (?). I think most of the kids thought it was named after me. As the student body grows older they don’t take the time to go in and look at the picture and do a little research, but they don’t. That was a real source of pride. And I think the Music Building after Wayne Hertz was certainly very fitting as have many others.

Smith: Central has a tradition of not being afraid to name a building after people who are living, but I understand that there is a new philosophy creeping onto this campus now that buildings will not be named after a living person, only after they have died and their contributions to the University will have been judged to be worthy, will they then be considered for naming a building.

Dean: I disagree with that just from my personal experience.

Smith: Certainly.

Dean: I’m so happy that my dad, he passed in ‘67, he retired here in ‘64 and had a couple of more years. But he was able to see that building erected and be involved in the ceremony and know that it was named after him. I know it gave him a great deal of pride.

Smith: Now, certainly you will remember dear old Mr. Bouillon who for so many years was chairman of our Board of Trustees. Now I can’t think of any person who was more thrilled to have a building named after him then he was to have the library named after him. And I thought how fortunate it is that he has passed on and does not, did not know that the building named after him ceased to be the university library. He had lived with the program.

Dean: Yeah. Exactly. I agree wholeheartedly.

Smith: Now, were you satisfied with the school to which the athletic and P.E. program was assigned, with teacher education and professional studies. Would it have made any difference had you had a school of Physical Education separate from all of those other entities? Would it have made any difference to you?

Dean: Probably not to me. Others can speak much better to that point. That’s the way it was and I... it worked fine for my purposes.

Smith: Do you recall at any time while you were coaching that you felt you were looked down on as a coach as opposed to being an academic by any part of this faculty? Were you aware of being looked down on as being a “jock”?

Dean: Not really. It may have happened and I didn’t pick up on it. No, I thought we had great camaraderie. Other people were interested in their own areas, obviously, but we had great support.

Smith: I can recall, and you would immediately recognize if we were to mention names, which I will not do, but I can recall any number of days over coffee at Webster’s across the Street, or the Union building, or where ever, that there would occasionally arise that academic element that felt that a great many of us were not appropriately teaching in a University setting, that we didn’t belong in the University. That included play directors and coaches and any number of us who were part of the faculty, but they that felt we weren’t particularly academic to really be part of a University.

Dean: I’m sure that probably did exist. We were, you were physically closer to this, that type of action. We were removed by six blocks, or so, so unless it happened at the . I’m sure you spent more time on lower campus, so to speak.

Smith: Well, I spent a lot of time on the Faculty Council. I dealt with things like that.

Dean: Sure.

Smith: Would you comment on the pre-college preparation of the students you worked with in your classes, as well as on the floor? Do you feel we were getting a representative group of young men and women on our campus? I’m thinking back to the years when I first came here when this school had the reputation of taking the University’s flunk-outs and Washington State’s flunk-outs. Now, it wasn’t long before a lot of us faculty members were so uncomfortable with that that we started turning it around, but did you feel that you got a representative group of students to work with here?

Dean: I think so.

Smith: Good.

Dean: And I think, I know standards have really toughened up, and I’m sure there are teachers out there who may not make it through the present demands, and obviously, I think a better student will probably have a better chance of being a successful teacher, but I can think of several when were not outstanding in the G.P.A.. department who have done great work in the public schools. Thank God they’re out there.

Smith: Now, Dean, in your association with the N.A.I.A. over all those years, were you ever elected to National Office?

Dean: I was President of the N.A.I.A. Basketball Coaches’ Association for two years there, and went through the chair in that organization. That was my total involvement.

Smith: Good. Now, you certainly saw the League, if there was one, change constantly while you were here at Central. What was your feeling about the organization of athletics within the state and within the Pacific Northwest?

Dean: I thought we had a really good situation, probably due to my dad and Len Reaves, and Chuck Quackenbush who were pioneers, and John Henrick at Puget Sound in developing, I always felt, especially with the budget concerns that schools like ourselves had that the geography determines what the competition would he (?) They’re fighting that now. To go two states away to find similar institutions to play and give(?) to a lot of travel. (?) To be real honest with you, it broke my heart that Eastern Washington went into the Big Sky and moved up Div. 1. They, of course, were a bitter rival, but I think it was a great rivalry in all sports, and I think over several years, and we lost them, a huge loss, and it was never replaced. A key game, Western (?), particularly in the Western-Central thing then at that time. And when I first came here Pacific-Lutheran was the basketball king-pin. They were, they had been the power, and still were very good They were a top rival, very good, also their opponents, Seattle U., St. Martins. Look at Eastern was a real (?), and I think they made a mistake. What people would say over there but (?) Central-Eastern association was, we were lucky.

Smith: Did you have time this morning to read the sports section of the Yakima Herald?

Dean: I browsed it.

Smith: Did you focus at all on the column that was comparing with the possibility that the Nicholson Regime may come to an end by an appointment of a new basketball coach at Central who has no relationship what so ever to the Nicholson mystique.

Dean: I was shocked that they put that in. I was a little surprised to see that mentioned. I’ve been gone six years now and I haven’t even thought of that angle to be very honest with you. And, of course, Greg Sparling played on my last team here, an outstanding young man. And right now I feel sad about that... In the papers, Nicholson...

Smith: Well, he’s still a nice young man.

Dean: ...get the job.

Smith: The newspaper was guessing this morning that he was not number one or two, and that he might not get it and if he did not then there would come to an end, not only the Nicholson coaching mystique, but those who have been ball players with the Nicholson’ through the years.

Dean: Right.

Smith: Were you given an opportunity to develop any new courses to teach up there, Dean?

Dean: Oh, well, we constantly had P. F. faculty meetings which curriculum was discussed. I was not a leader in that field. Jean Putnam and Betty Hileman, Erlice Killorn. The ladies probably worked harder at it then certainly some of the men. There was pretty constant change going on.

Smith: Was there any time in your busy coaching, teaching life that you could participate in committees across campus? Did you recall participating in any campus committees?

Dean: No, I just felt I couldn’t very...not a complete lack of interest. There was a .1 just felt I didn’t have the time to...

Smith: Well, considering coaching assignments while the rest of us were sitting in, were sitting in committee meeting, you probably were on the road either with the team, or recruiting, or writing letters, or on the telephone. Your assignment was totally different than those of us who were primarily class room teachers.

Dean: Most of my career, I was actually without an assistant, a paid assistant. Stan Sorenson came here as a grad. assistant in 64-’65 and was hired the following year. And he was a full time faculty member and basketball assistant up until, I have the years right here. But he suffered a heart attack, drastic heart attack. In the mid seventies and (?). He recovered, but was not able to coach after that. He came back and taught, and I think he probably lived about another ten years before he passed. So after Stan’s situation there was just whatever help we could recruit...we were very fortunate, we had a lot of ex-players and coaches donated time.

Smith: Were you ever presented with an opportunity to become involved in the timing and following through on the construction of campus facilities, buildings, courts’

Dean: No, other than just being part of the P.E. faculty where these things came up.

Smith: How much did the Physical Education faculty have, how much opportunity did they have in making recommendations for such as the construction of the tennis courts up there? Was the faculty consulted?

Dean: Very definitely. I think everything was opened up for discussion and a lot of interchange on just about any thing we did, as I recall.

Smith: How were your...What kind of feelings did you develop for the basketball court on which you spent so many thousands of hours? Was the facility at Central good?

Dean: I had an emotional attachment to it, of course, but I think it was tremendous. We were very fortunate that my dad was a, had a lot of foresight. Putting enough seats in there and it was a great place to play basketball. That was my key recruiting speech. When we brought a kid in, I said, “This is a great place to play basketball!”

Smith: Now, did your wife attend Central games?

Dean: No, she was from Cle Elum and she got her, what do they call it, her P.H.T., Putting Hubby Through. She worked in a bank, and a drug store, (?)...in which a wife is the first one into heaven, I think. They go right to the head of the line, not coaches, the coaches’ wives.

Smith: Now, you had some children, where are they and what are they doing?

Dean: I’m very proud of them. Joe is our oldest, he’s 45 now, he’s Director of International Programs at Illinois State University in Normal, Illinois, and is moving out this summer to San Francisco State University, in a similar position. He got his Master’s from Central, a language major. And Gary is 41 and he works for Chevron Oil. He actually is with Global Lubricants. He’s doing a lot of travel in South America. He started out pumping gas down at the interchange down here. Did that through hissummer graduate program. Became an assistant manager when he graduated. Went up to Arlington, moved down to an office in Seattle and then he got moved down to the Bay Area. (?)San Francisco, (?) Really done well.

Smith: Good.

Dean: Two grand kids. Joe has a son, Christian, and Gary has a daughter, (?), and (?)

Smith: Do you have any relatives who attended Central? Did either boy ever attend Central?

Dean: The sons. Both, both graduated.

Smith: Right, that’s what we want to get on the book.

Dean: And I’d have to say, they both went on that winter quarter Mexican program. And both had a lot of Spanish. Joe, it was actually his major, and it has really served them both well.

Smith: Now, when you served in the Navy, we’ll touch this very quickly, what were your duties while on active duty?

Dean: I started out in a B12 program. An officer training program, went to school in Missouri at Central College in Missouri. Was there almost a year and then was up at the University of Michigan for most of a year. And then the War had turned at that time to our betterment, and they didn’t need officers, and we could have stayed in and got a commission, but that would have committed another, at that time they thought, three years served. So then I went to boot camp at Great Lakes and I fought the Battle of San Diego Harbor on a destroyer tanker. So I did not see a lot of action.

Smith: Now, as we come near the end, Dean, are there subject areas you’d like to comment on, anything you’d like to say for the good of the tape, or the good of history? You may be quoted someday on someone’s term paper.

Dean: OK. I was proud to be a part of Central. As a student and as a faculty member, and as a coach I enjoyed it very much.

Smith: Well speaking for an awful lot of people unofficially, you have to be very pleased,

Dean. You made a significant contribution to the history of this school long before there was ever a Living History project, and we thank you.

Dean: Thank you. You guys are a real team, you need to go into business.