CWU LIVING HISTORY PROJECT

JOAN DUMAS

Putnam: Well this is our Living History Project, and we have with us today, Joan Dumas. the camera person is Bonnie Klucking and the interviewer is Jean Putnam. This is November 6, 1997. And Joan came to us in 1965 and officially leaving us in 1978 here at Central, and worked as secretary to the Chair of the Dept. of Speech and Drama. But she’s going to tell us first about her personal history, so Joan can you give us a background of your history, starting with birth.

Dumas: Yes, I was born and raised in Walla Walla, and attended school in Walla Walla. What else can I say about that. I married for the first time in Walla Walla, and moved to Moscow, Idaho. I’m not sure, it was in the late fifties, and at that time I went to work at the University of Idaho, and that is another history of how I got here. OK, so I was Secretary to the Chairman of Biological Sciences at the University of Idaho, and I, having been divorced from my former husband, and I met my husband, Phil, because he was teaching in the Department at that time, and Phil and I were eventually married, and came to Central in 1965.

Putnam: Now did Phil then, you came with him, how did he.. .was he then asked, or did he...

Dumas: Yes.

Putnam: . . . apply for a teaching position?

Dumas: Yes, he’d been at the University of Idaho for, I think it was twelve years, and he taught summer school at WSU, and he went completely unhappy with the way things were at the University of Idaho. And he had applied various places, but since we were both Eastern Washington natives, Phil and I grew up thirty miles apart, he was, I was in Walla Walla, he was in Dayton. We even came to realize that we were related by marriage. And (?), we wanted to stay as close as we could to our parents. Mine were in Walla Walla and his were in Dayton, and so he applied for positions various places and it came down to Carbondale, Illinois, Portland State, and Central. And believe it or not, at that time Central offered him the most money. It was, Central at that time was in a state of flux. It was really, the Legislature was pouring money into it, and it was just, it seemed just ideal. So we came in 1965.

Putnam: OK, and he was in the Department...

Dumas: Department of Biological Sciences...

Putnam: And you?

Dumas: And I was the very first secretary in the Department of Speech and Drama because Speech and Drama had just that year, broken away from the English Department and John Erickson was the Chairman, and at that time, because it was so brand new, I was one-quarter time English, and three-quarters time Speech and Drama. And I remember I worked for John Utzinger, no not John Utzinger, Tony Canedo, John Vifian, and Richard Johnson was in the Department at that time, and I did work for them. This was in Edison Hall. Yeah, Edison Hall, and they were in three little offices, kind of in the basement, and we were on the second floor, and they had built a, they had renovated it a little bit, and that was the utter beginning and I think it was so great for me because I’d been interested, when I had started school I wanted to be a Speech and Drama major, and it was so interesting to me. When I interviewed, because I had been a secretary in higher education, I also worked in the summers at WSU in the Horticulture Department and so I’d been a secretary in higher education, and so I was hired right away. I came over for a visitation and, but I was sent to interview in the Department of Speech and Drama, and in the English Department, and the Education Department. And I, there were lots of people being interviewed in the Speech and Drama Department, and I thought, well, that will never happen. It.. .you know, there are just too many, but I was called that night to say that the Education Department had offered me a position, and Speech and Drama had. So I took the Speech and Drama.

Putnam: So, you were then the secretary to how many faculty, did you say? Three or four?

Dumas: Oh, no...

Putnam Or a lot.

Dumas: We had a lot more at that time. And, well, it grew under John Erickson because Speech and Drama at that time encompassed a lot of other things. We were Forensics, and Rhetoric, Speech and Rhetoric. We were Speech Pathology and Audiology. We were Radio-TV. We were Children’s Drama. Eventually the Department grew to have, counting all of those areas, probably 18 people.

Putnam: That’s a lot.

Dumas: Uhm hum.

Putnam: So your official title then at that time was Secretary to the Chair.

Dumas: To the Chair.

Putnam: To the Chair.

Dumas: But I had to give one-quarter time to English.

Putnam: Oh. and were there any other people assisting in the Department as well as you?

Dumas: I had student helpers.

Putnam: OK.

Dumas: And later, I was able to hire a secretary just for the Speech Pathology and Audiology area because it was a big area. We had graduate students in that area.

Putnam: Well, what did your work, what occupied your time most in your job?

Dumas: Did you know John Erickson?

Putnam: No. I didn’t.

Dumas: (Laughter!)

Putnam: You’d like to share that with us!

Dumas: I loved John. He and Amy are still dear, dear friends. And he is now retired, but when he left he went to be Dean at Cal Poly, at San Louis Obispo. John told me when I went to work for him, he said, “I want you to run this office. I want you to hire student helpers. I want you to oversee them, fire them. I want you to work with me, and I will back you all the way.” And he did that. He was, he demanded a lot, but because he knew, you knew, that he was, he considered you every bit as much a part of the Department as the faculty, and let that be known, in all ways. You just wanted to do your very best for him.

Putnam: Yeah, right. Now, you, the Department of Speech and Drama was in what part of the University, was it under what Dean, or with what Department? Do you remember?

Dumas: Uh,. . .Arts and Humanities.

Putnam: There was an Arts and Humanities.

Dumas: Yes. At one time, Tony Canedo was Dean. Who was the first Dean? I can’t remember, but it was...

Putnam: It was Arts and Humanities.

Dumas: I think it was Arts and Humanities.

Putnam: Which is very interesting because, you know, we then combined the Arts and Humanities with the Sciences.

Dumas: Yes.

Putnam: And then just recently a year or two ago we separated them back out again into separate schools.

Dumas: Uhm hum.

Putnam: So we’re right back to where it was in 1965.

Dumas: Uhm hum.

Putnam: Now, what faculty, or what individuals on the campus that you might have worked with, did you have any recollections about that might have been effective anywhere from your own Department, to the people, to any administrators, to any of the other secretaries or administrators?

Dumas: Do you mean, effective in what way?

Putnam: Effective in their job. That you thought were really, that they were successful and influential,

Dumas: OK.

Putnam In their position.

Dumas: Well, I think John Erickson was very...

Putnam: Was he?

Dumas: .. . Was very successful and very influential.

Putnam: And why do you think he was?

Dumas: Well, because at one time a Dean was hired, a Dean over our area, and, I think it was, I guess it was also in the Science area, so maybe it was Arts and Sciences for awhile, too. I can’t remember.

Putnam: It was eventually.

Dumas: But this particular Dean had his own way of doing things and he thought that the action was with the administration, and my boss as well as a lot of other Department Chairmen under this Dean, thought that the action was with the faculty and the students. And because of their standing up to this Dean, he was demoted. And it was very good for the school that he was. I’m not saying that he was a bad person, his ideas were not.

Putnam: And you kept/chaired a teacher’s name sheltered?

Dumas: Well, I think probably it’s best. Don’t you?

Putnam: OK. I don’t care.

Dumas: Well, it’s common knowledge. It was Neal Gillam. And, another boss I worked for, I worked for so, I’ve worked quite a few places on Central, at Central after John Erickson left, and another one of my bosses was a member of the Department Chairmen who was very effective, and I have to say that my husband was Department Chairman at that time and he was also very effective.

Putnam: When you left, when did you leave the Department of Speech and Drama?

Dumas: Well, let’s see,...

Putnam: Do you remember?

Dumas: John left, Oh, gosh, I think he’d been there maybe seven years, and he left, and I stayed on for a while, but the new President was fragmenting. And going off in different directions, different areas, and I, with several acting chairmen, and it was just very chaotic for a while. So Larry Danton, who was Chairman of Business Administration sand Economics, was a good friend, and Larry came and asked me if I would be interested in coming to be his secretary. And I said that I would be, so I guess my qualifications were more than the other two interviewees, I don’t know, but I got the job, and I went to work for Larry Danton in the Department of Business Administration and Economics. Another big Department, and 1 enjoyed that. And I worked with Larry until this school, was going to become a school. And Lyle Ball was being brought in to be Dean. And at that time I was secretary for, and secretary to the Chairman, I only had one secretary two helping me in the office, and it was a large Department, so, and I had two student helpers.

Putnam: Now, at that time, in terms of the civil service titles, were you secretary one?

Dumas: I was secretary four.

Putnam: That’s right. It goes the other way.

Dumas: And after a time you could go, and then you could be program assistant, or administrative assistant, or whatever. And I was secretary four with a secretary two to help me in the office, two student helpers and I knew what it would entail becoming a school, all of the curriculums would have to be changed. It was going to be so much work. And economists are very demanding people, and I decided that it was going to be more than I wanted to attempt with a brand new Dean. I was going to be his secretary,

and it would have been a promotion for me, too, because I think, if you became a Dean’s secretary, I think you got a raise, but I don’t think your title changed that much then. it does now, but I don’t think it did then. So I told Larry, I said, “Larry Danton, you know we’ve been friends for so long.” Which is true. The Dantons, the John Ericksons, the John Greens, and Phil and I. we sort of went around together. and so I told Larry, “You know, greater love hath no secretary. When you go back to teaching and the Department becomes a school, i’m going to quit. I’m going to transfer someplace else.” And that’s what I did. And I felt a little bit bad about it because Lyle Ball, when he came, talked to me and asked me, he said,” I hope it isn’t me.” And I said, “It isn’t you at all. It’s the, I just see such tremendous turn-over here, and I’m just not going to be up to it with as little help as I have.”

Putnam: Now, then about 1975-76, we’ve got it on the record somewhere, I’m sure.

Dumas: It was, no, it was a little earlier.

Putnam: Earlier than that?

Dumas: Earlier than that. Because I was lucky again because David Dillard, who was then the Head of Off Campus Programs came to me and said, “Would you come and be secretary to Derward Tozer, and take care of Summer Sessions, and work in Off Campus Programs?” And I said, “If I can transfer right out I will do that.” And I did, and I enjoyed that very much, too. That worked into a Program Assistant because Pat Dorsey and I, and one other woman, I can’t remember her name, (she) worked out of the Registrar’s Office, Pat and I did Off Campus Programs. We scheduled them. We advertised them. We were in contact with all of the school districts all over the state, and it was an interesting job. I really enjoyed it very, very much. But that came to an end when the powers that be decided that Off Campus Programs was going to be moved to the Registrar’s Office. Well, you know I had one of the first computers on campus.

Putnam: You did?

Dumas: Really. Oh, I thought I was so smart, and when we did not want to move to the Registrar’s Office. Pat and I did not want to go there. I did not want to go for a lot of reasons. The Registrar’s Office had a reputation at that time, which it lived up to, and also I could see problems because Off Campus Programs and scheduling through the school districts and all of that, my job and Pat’s job, we were so independent of the other things going on in the Registrar’s Office, and I just thought, and so did Pat, this is not going to be a good move. Also at that time, Central had just started hiring adjunct faculty, and in each of the areas, if they taught off campus, which they did, I was the one in charge of all of their records, in charge of their pay-roll. All of that , and I had to go back and forth to the Deans’ Offices and coordinate things, and the Deans would call and ask me questions, and I would call and ask their secretaries questions, and the Registrar at that time was very, very difficult to get along with, anyway. But I will say this for him, he had been told. “Off Campus Programs is going to be in the Registrar’s Office, and you’re going to pay their salaries.” So we went in with a little cloud over our heads. And I do have to say, I lasted two months before I transferred out. It was the most miserable time I have ever spent on the Central campus. And it was a time in which women really had no outs. It was the most terrible time I have ever experienced in any job.

Putnam: Now was this basically because you were not given respect in your position?

Dumas: Absolutely.

Putnam: Right.

Dumas: I had never been treated like that in my life. Neither had Pat Dorsey. It was, we became whipping boys. Whipping boys, whipping girls?.

Putnam: Right.

Dumas: And it was very hard for both of us. And it was hard for the woman in the Registrar’s Office who wore two hats because she went to do the registration off campus, and just because she was associated with us, she was given the same treatment. It was very, very bad. I do have to say that a treatment similar, but not as extensive, most of the women in the Registrar’s Office at that time endured. And Wadell Snyder at that time was head of staff personnel. I don’t know how many times I was over talking to him, and I don’t know how many times other women in the Registrar’s Office were over talking to him. We had no recourse because, he said, “You know, it’s really sad, women coming over here with all of these concerns, but, and we can file grievances, but we can’t guarantee a cushier job.”

Putnam: So there was really no definite appeal process if you did something like that with no protection.

Dumas: No real protection. No real protection. You went (?). And then you went (?), but there are lots of ways to get rid of people who they don’t want.

Putnam: Right. Right. Now did you feel that this was the personnel in the Registrar’s Office, or did you feel it was more all-encompassing on the campus?

Dumas: No, no, no. It was the Registrar. Period.

Putnam: OK.

Dumas: Period! Ed Harrington had said this was going to take place. We were going to go down there. I think Pat Dorsey and I had been there a month when he requested a meeting with the Registrar and Ed Harrington. We wanted to air what was going on. At that time Ed got a young Assistant Dean. He didn’t last very long and I, his name was Larry something, who used to come back and be at the Western Art Show. What are they when they get up and.. .Auctioneer! He used to be auctioneer even after he left the campus. He would come back to be auctioneer. But I can’t remember, Larry something, I think. But anyway, he was inexperienced. I don’t know how long he had been a Ph.D., but he needed help. And Ed didn’t come to the meeting. He sent Larry. It was a disaster, Pat and I felt. No one listened to us, and it was really, it was a sad situation. So I only lasted two months. I could not.. .all the time I had been at Central and had had nothing but good experiences, and good relations with faculty and staff and students. Central was my bread and butter, and I care about this school, and I will never forget one time when the Registrar walked in and made some comment to me. I had had to go over to the, to Burt William’s office to get some information on an adjunct professor in history, and I got, I was gone about twenty minutes, and when I came back the Registrar dressed me down, in front of the entire...

Putnam: Because of the amount of time you’d been gone?

Dumas: And why was I over there? And (?), you know, but when he walked away from my office that was the first and only time in my life. I thought from my desk which was in the main office. I thought, I’m going to get up, and I’m going to walk off. I’m going to leave. I’m going to.. .I don’t have to take this and I’m going to sacrifice everything. I’m leaving! But I didn’t do it. I thought, “Control yourself now. You don’t have to take that, but there are other ways.” So I transferred out. I took a demotion, went back to secretary three, and I was a program assistant, and I went back to secretary three just to get out of there. And Pat Dorsey lasted a little bit longer, but it was terrible, and I don’t want to dwell on that because my experience before that had been so good. And I cared about everybody, and I felt they liked me and we got along and it was, I just never came up against anything like that in my life. And I do have to say that later on down the road we were vindicated because the man was fired. (Laughter!) But it was one of the worst experiences of my life.

Putnam: Now you said that you then moved on. Where did you go?

Dumas: I went to work as secretary for Bill Lipsky, who at that time was head of the College Information Office. So I loved that, too, because I learned to write press releases and I’ve always been extremely interested in journalism and I’d taken some journalism classes and I really enjoyed that.

Putnam: And that’s how we ended up having you as a contributing editor to the Daily Record for so many years.

Dumas: Right.

Putnam: I always looked forward to your contributing editor writings.

Dumas: Writer.

Putnam: Contributing writer. Yes. You continued to do that?

Dumas: Yeah. I did two columns for the Daily Record, but now I just do one, and it’s the Pet column, and I do it just because I love to do it to help the animals if I can. There’s no pay, but that’s fine.

Putnam: Going back to your work in the Department of Journalism, working with (?),...

Dumas: Public information.

Putnam: Yeah, public information.

Dumas: That’s what we were called.

Putnam: OK, yeah. Now how long were you there?

Dumas: I left, I worked there until I quit in 1978.

Putnam: Yeah, OK.

Dumas: I enjoyed it very, very much. I enjoyed working with John Foster. And I enjoyed the students, and it was a busy office. Interesting things happening, of course, and the only thing, I had developed asthma and John Ludtka had been the Head of Public Information, and he had just left to go work at the Daily Record, so Bill Lipsky was his successor, and everyone smoked at that time. 1 didn’t, but everybody did, and Bill Lipsky was a chain smoker, Bill Whiting, who was his assistant, was a chain smoker. And I just got so I couldn’t breathe in the office. We even bought an air purifier. A big one that stood right behind my desk on legs. They killed it! The poor little thing wouldn’t function!

Putnam: Well you see, had you been in that position about fifteen to twenty years later, there would not have been any smoking for you to contend with.

Dumas: That’s right.

Putnam: It’s taken many years for us to realize the dangers.

Dumas: Right. That’s true.

Putnam: Of that smoking.

Dumas: And so I finally had several severe attacks, and I had to be in the hospital, and

that sort of thing, and finally I just said, “You know, I’m just going to have to quit. I

can’t. ..I’m sorry, but I just can’t and”. So that’s what I was doing when I left in 1978.

Putnam: 1978. I want to go back and pick up a few questions here.

Dumas: I would if they..., Jean. I quit in 1978, but I didn’t quit. I officially quit, but I was called back. If anyone’s secretary was going to be ill, or gone, or if they were searching for a new secretary, I worked in almost every department on this campus and I enjoyed that so much. Wendell Hill was the first one who called me back to work as his secretary until he could find a new one. And then he would just tell people, well, call Joanie, and he started calling me , the campus call-girl. So, in that capacity I worked, I just came back and worked at Central for a long, long time. The last I worked for, twice, for several months, as secretary to Jerry...

Putnam. (7)

Dumas: No, no. Assistant to the President.

Putnam: Oh, yes. Jerry Jones.

Dumas: Jones. I worked a lot for Jerry Jones. And then I worked for Larry Lium. I

worked for administrators as well as in the Departments, and the last I ever worked on campus for any length of time, I was part of, there were three of us who filled in after Millie died, until Gloria could...

Putnam: Secretary to the President.

Dumas Could transfer. So the last thing I did was fill in as secretary to the President.

Putnam: Well, you got all the way to the top.

Dumas: I got all the way to the top and I thought that was really gonna’ be good because

I had helped run the search to hire him. And that was when I was working for Jerry Jones. Well anyway, I was still tied to Central, really.

Putnam: F or many years.

Dumas: For many years, yeah. I’m going to have to tell you a really cute story. Jim Brooks was President, and when I quit Jim called me up and he said, “Joanie, I’m going to submit your name to the Board of Trustees so you will be a Distinguished Civil Servant.” I said, “But, I’m not retiring. I just quit.” He said that doesn’t make any difference. He said, And I’m submitting it, and he did, and I am.

Putnam: That’s wonderful.

Dumas: Yeah. I thought you had to be a retired person, but I guess you don’t.

Putnam: Ten years, I think...

Dumas: I was thirteen officially, and then more off and on.

Putnam: Oh, that’s a wonderful story. I have a couple of other questions that we haven’t, I guess, they’re brief, and you may not even have any response to some of these,...

Dumas: OK.

Putnam: But, I think we’ve covered most of them. Now, let’s see, did you at any time, while you were at Central, did they provide you any opportunity to take workshops, or gain any additional knowledge in your area?

Dumas: Yes, you could. And you could take classes, of course. And I did so. But I never registered for the classes, I would audit. I would sit-in because my interest was such, I just wanted to have more knowledge about certain things, that’s all. That’s what I would do.

Putnam: So it wasn’t necessarily job skills.

Dumas: No.

Putnam: But it was a specific interest in some of the subject matter that you had.

Dumas. Uhm hum.

Putnam: Now, let’s see, what about, did you have any contact with students in your position that you (?). Were you always involved with students?

Dumas: Yes, yes, always. And I’ll tell you a cute story about that. All right. One of my very first student helpers, she was supposed to be my student helper to help me (?)English when I first came. Barbara Mathews. Barbara Mathews was going with Mac Bledsoe. I was pretty (?). It was absolutely great, and then of course, they were married, had their children, and eventually Mac went to Walla Walla to teach and coach. And when 1 would go to Walla Walla to visit my mother, I would call and we would have wonderful conversations, and of course, now she has, now Drew is such a marvelous athlete, and my oldest son, who is with the Athletic Department at WSU, and he runs the time clock, the score board, whatever it is, during the games, and he thought a great deal of Drew. And he said, “Well, Drew’s parents are going to be here for the next game.” I said, “You .just go up to Drew’s mother and you introduce yourself, and you say who your mother is.” And he said, “Oh, Mom!” I said, “Do it! Just do it.” So he did, and he called me afterwards and he said, “Mom, she jumped up and grabbed me, and hugged me, and kissed me and said, ‘You give that to your mother!” And you know, I thought if there’s any way to make your kids think you’re important.

Putnam: Sometimes you have to give them (?) A wonderful story.

Dumas: They’re wonderful people, wonderful people.

Putnam: Let’s see, I guess we’ve covered most of these kinds of things, what about, did you feel that the extra-curricular activities, such as athletics, plays, concerts, what have you, play an important part in campus life, and were you ever involved with any of that?

Dumas: Yes. I think it plays a... I can’t even tell you...It plays just so important a part of campus life. It’s so wonderful to have had access to those things, and I was part, we were called the Central Players. And we did Reader’s Theater and things like that and it was fun. It was very, very interesting and fun, and of course, attending the plays was always fun for me, and fun for the families that lived here. The campus as a center for welcoming high school students from all over for various things, and music competition, that sort of thing. Do you know I remember when I was in high school in Walla Walla and I was in music and I can remember coming to Central for the music competition and I remember marching down Main Street, we stayed at the Antlers Motel, and I remember marching down Main Street from the campus, singing...

TECHNICAL INTERRUPTION

Putnam: Well we’re just going to do a little P.S. here because we ended the tape, and we’ve got...(?)

(Another Voice): Just a minute, Mother.. .Here we go,... now.

Putnam: Well we ended the tape, but I wanted to do a little P.S. because we were talking about a story and I’d like to get on tape. We were talking about Edison Hall and I was telling you I taught up there and I remembered all those little cubicles where the Speech Department had their little testing areas, or maybe Speech Pathology, And the Music Department, I thought had been there in Edison, And you were recalling for us when Betty Evans.

Dumas: Yeah, Right. And Betty Evans came, I have to tell you briefly, just a little bit about that because Betty and I had many talks. She was hired from the University of Hawaii. She came to Central from the University of Hawaii. And we had many talks about that including Phil, because Phil’s grandfather was hired as the Director of the Normal School that became the University of Hawaii. So, Phil’s father was born there, so Betty...we had lot’s of talks about that. But I did not realize that Betty had been trained in Vocal Music, and she had a beautiful voice and she used that in her speech classes sometimes. And Edison Hall, I don’t know, it just seemed the acoustics were great in Edison Hall, and my office was kind of built out into, a cubical built out into one of the floors, and down the hall I would hear Betty and she would start her kids out singing a capella and she’s start them out and it would just be notes and singing with a scale, but it would just reverberate and it would just be beautiful. I thought it was a great way to teach speech. And she said to me, when she would come into my office, she’d say things like, “God bless you, little (?). I need some pins. Pins, you know. Pins, pins, you know, thumbtacks.” And then she said, one time, “Joan, don’t be like all the other Americans, my name is BETTY EVANS, not Beddy. All Americans call me Beddy. I’m not Beddy. I’m Betty, Betty.’ Betty was wonderful. And we’re having a memorial for her on the 23rd of this month.

Putnam: I think that is wonderful.

Dumas: Bless her heart.

Putnam: And thank you for the Post Script.

Dumas: Thank you. Well, we did it!