CWU LIVING HISTORY PROJECT

LEE FISHER

Putnam: This is February 11, 1997. We’re here in Barge Hall. We are interviewing Lee Fisher. Our camera person is Ham Howard and the interviewer is Jean Putnam. So Lee we are going to start this afternoon, this nice, snowy afternoon, with having you give us a brief background of where you came from and how you ended up at Central.

Fisher: Thank you. I was born in 1928. Raised in Montana, in the mountains of Montana, the plains of Canada, and the rain of Bellingham. I came - what was number two?

Putnam: Well, I wanted to know where you went to school.

Fisher: I went to school in Edmonton, Alberta and Bellingham - Blane, Washington. I finished high school there in 1947. Went into the service for six years, an Air Force pilot. Then I went to school as a math major in ‘53 with all of the other Korean War vets.

Putnam: Where did you go to school?

Fisher: Bellingham.

Putnam: Bellingham.

Fisher: And I was in the ed. department because I was a math teacher, also a math major. I was a high school teacher there for three years and then back to Boston to graduate school to a place called Boston College.

Putnam: Is that so?

Fisher: And this luke warm little Methodist boy - that was something to be around those ? Jesuits. Did my masters degree there. Came to Yakima teaching - at a high school math teaching job. Was there for three years. Went to a junior college in Pasco for a couple years in the Tri Cities, went to Whitman College in Walla Walla for a couple years and then in ‘67 I came up here as a faculty member. An assistant professor in what Wes Crum called Aerospace Education.

Putnam: Now was Wes Crum the person who contacted you? How did you get here? Did you hear about it or –

Fisher: Well, Wes was in to Aviation as an avocation and I met him on a search - we were searching for lost airplanes down in The Dalles and he was looking for somebody with some academic credentials and a lot of aviation experience and so we had our little interview right down there in the wind - windy airport but that’s how come I came to the attention of Central.

Putnam: Okay. So when you came here then, what did you say your official capacity was? You were - what was your rank and your title?

Fisher: I was an assistant down in mathematics at Whitman College and I became an assistant up here at quite a raise in pay. In those days it was $10,000 in 1967. That was big pay for an assistant.

Putnam: What department were you in?

Fisher: When I came here?

Putnam: Yes.

Fisher: Well, my contract letter was half math and half aviation and it turned out that the next year, 68 and ‘69 the math department went from 13 full time prime faculty down to eight full time faculty so - and the aviation quote department went from a half time person to two.

Putnam: So you came in 1967 and when did you retire?

Fisher: 1986.

Putnam: 1986. When you left, now we are not going to skip that too much but when you left what was your rank? I mean what were the different assignments that you had as you went along?

Fisher: My faculty rank was associate professor and the trustees in their infinite wisdom promoted me to full professor of aerospace education which never existed at Central program but that was Don Schliesman for you.

Putnam: So you were in the department of?.

Fisher: No.

Putnam: What were you?

Fisher: I was an individual person attached to the Air Force ROTC for lack of a better place. Never had a chairman, never had a colleague, had an interesting experience here building up the flight tech department. It was a lot of fun and it is all over.

Putnam: It’s too bad you weren’t able to stay another ten years and see the advance of our flight technology program.

Fisher: To the contrary. Well that was all part of my 20 year plan. I gave Erickson a ten year plan and then a 20 year plan. Building up the airport, Wes Crum is going to be the chairman, we’re going to have some of those non military people in the flight program. Had a lot of that. We would be picking the airlines and the government and the FAA and there must have been a little clairvoyance in the cards those years because it all came true.

Putnam: When you said Erickson, that was Dean –

Fisher: James H.M. Erickson, Dean of Professional Studies and a more mendacious soul I have not met.

Putnam: Now, do you recall any humorous events that have taken place while you were at Central? Any stories that you –

Fisher: Events?

Putnam: Humorous kinds of things that happened to you or that you remember that happened at Central. Do you remember any?

Fisher: Well, there are some funny sad but not funny ha, ha stories and so there is no point in saying those.

Putnam: Okay. Well now one of the questions that I had asked you - I know that we also ? we also had ? at Central ? Do you remember any of the general problems that were happening at the time? Some of the things that were -

Fisher: It was a time of pretty good growth. I was in graduate school in Pullman up at Wazzu. One of the people there whom I met was also getting a PhD and he was a lobbyist in Olympia and he said at the time, “Well you need more buildings at Ellensburg.” I said, “Yeah, but we don’t have any money.” “You need them anyway.” He said, “Whether you need them or not you’re going to get them because of Joe Davis and the Central Labor Council.” So the legislature each year provided construction money. I don’t have - nothing stands out in my memory.

Putnam: But you’re implying that we did get some new buildings during that time?

Fisher: Yeah, some nice, new buildings. It was wonderful. This building now, Barge Hall, is? I sometimes think maybe the planners are a little arbitrary. I know from years ago and Charlie McCann was Dean and Wes Crum a Dean under him that the plans had been, according to Wes, that the college would expand up to the south along 8th Avenue. The old ? was there but then there was a change in philosophy and the college as we know has gone to the north and I remember this town from years ago when I used to drive through here. I have no negative recollections of - other than the fact that the public entity can condemn land and a lot of the old time residences from the settlers were right up here on what is now this building. Other than that ? I think it’s been a wonderful ?.

Putnam: During your time here at Central, you were familiar with a lot of administrators, faculty. Which of those individuals stand out in your mind as being important leaders? Were there any that you felt were leading Central in the right direction?

Fisher: That’s a big order.

Putnam: Yes sir.

Fisher: I don’t think we had, to my knowledge, a remarkable leaders at Central since I’ve been here. The thing that flawed in the selection of administrators is not their personal security or their ability to work with volunteers. It takes a great dependence on authority which can arise to a lot of stress and tension in the faculty and in the staff. Some of the people who come to mind I think were very good people were John Green, whose retired from the ed. department, Bernie Martin, who was dean for awhile, and Dale Comstock whose also a graduate dean. Those people were, I thought, clearly confidant and able. I have recollections of Gilliam, what’s his first name? Neil?

Putnam: ?

Fisher: Erickson, I’ll put a thumbs down on him. Ed Harrington was the most incompetent, insecure person that I was acquainted with in the administration. That’s just my personal recollection. Applegate was not up to the job. Schliesman, Dandy Don as they called him in the newspaper, is the single key to every professional ? or? that I could have known and personally ? recruitment to himself. That’s my - and I have an abundance of evidence, 25 years of correspondence as part of that conclusion. But I have no great - another person with whom I worked with Don Cummings. I was in the math clinic and Cummings did math? Had a whole sort of different agendas to satisfy. But those people stick out in my mind. Thank you.

Putnam: Okay, now Lee, you kind of eluded to the fact that there were problems that you felt between the administrators and faculty or you eluded to that. What kinds of problems - do you have any memories about the problems between the faculty and the administrators?

Fisher: Well, yes, I guess that I would have to say that they weren’t all on the same train.

Putnam: Do you mean the faculty were on one and the administrators were on another?

Fisher: Nobody - you know, I’m aware, nobody cared for a red hot classroom teacher which I had been in my youth. No one ? to anybody except ? Curiosity that’s a very - that’s not any outrageous thing to say that I was a red hot classroom teacher but I was. I had a great history for doing that but they were going in different directions. My contract letter when I came here in ‘67 was a page and a half of tremendously high sounding rhetoric on goals and I did those faithfully for 12 years and accomplished all sorts of things. State leadership in aviation education, developed a program for teachers, teaching classes in Spokane along with a few in Seattle, built up the curriculum here, an entire catalog of my work, all new courses. Someone else was always more meritorious. Someone else got the promotions. And that’s not sour grapes, that’s just the facts and I felt that they were not all on the same train. They were going in different directions and they had the red pencil.

Putnam: Your suggestion then in terms of procedure for awarding merit and promotion, that was flawed perhaps? That the procedure itself didn’t allow some faculty to receive recognition?

Fisher: I felt that for a finite number of dollars per biennium, it sets one against the other for people to compete for merit. We can’t have an infinite budget but the process itself unless you prepare your own big book is somewhat demeaning for the applicant and some people have more moxie than others. More letters from their parents so I don’t know. I along with no one else to my knowledge have been able to design a reasonable system of merit.

Putnam: Very difficult. Why don’t we move on. What about your students, the students that you had in your program? Do you recall any major differences between students and faculty. Do you have anything to say about the students that you were working with?

Fisher: Wonderful bunch. Wonderful bunch. ?, I felt they all should have taken mathematics through the calculus, a year of physics, and a year of chemistry because that’s what happened to me. The students were great and when I started pushing for a foreign language, it turns out that of 26 seniors, 18 of them had one year of foreign language and 12 of them had two years. That really had been a good academic requirement because we were halfway there. The students themselves in this business of aviation, not in mathematics - well maybe they are in math - they are self motivated to a tremendous degree. All sorts of those people from the ‘60’s are airline captains making their two hundred thou. And if money is important then I think they are succeeding. A lot of them are doing professional things other than that and I think the fact that the bachelors degree from Central, not from anywhere, really put them off on their professional way. A little corny but that’s how I feel.

Putnam: Now were they older students than the average student or not?

Fisher: All sorts of them were older because a program like this had not existed. There were lots of them who were 19 or 20. Some of them like Bob Dufault was a local high school student and I taught him how to fly and soloed him on his 16th birthday. So he got his pilot’s license before he got his driver’s license. But this was a hurdle to which these people had to pass they felt. There were problems. One was the junior college transferability of certain non college courses. Another was always financial. Where do you get the money to fly? But as the students in general were and still are I thought a very strong, positively inclined. Each ?. We used to have a banquet every year, an aviation banquet like graduation. A lot of high jinks there. Almost like a West Point thing. So the students were great. Some went by the boards, that’s one of those things.

Putnam: Now I have a list of subjects that you might want to touch on and if you have nothing to say there that’s fine too. Some of the things that you came into contact with as you were teaching, one of those things was the salary schedule. Do you have any comment on how they arrived at it or fairness, or anything?

Fisher: That was almost - to me that was almost another imponderable. I had very little input nor did I seek it on the salary schedule. I was on several committees that were concerned with that. I felt - I retired at something like 29 thou. There were other people with whom I was working had been there a couple years and were about

43. Sometimes a person just falls through the cracks and now I’ve been retired 10 years and only then can you laugh but one of the old time faculty ? told me, “That’s okay Fisher, you just fell through the cracks.”

Putnahi: So in terms of the salary contract - salary schedule oftentimes the way that you would up that schedule is ? or? What about the faculty code, Lee, anything that you recall about it?

Fisher: Well the collegiality, as mentioned in the questionnaire, was a pleasure to observe. Particularly in the faculty senate. When I came to Ellensburg from Whitman, I came out of a place where there was 100 faculty and 1,000 students, ratio ten to one. All of the seniors had to complete a senior thesis, which is like a masters thesis. It was a very tight little organized democratic entity in the faculty senate. You had to go to every senate meeting because they might vote for a six week intercession and then you’d have something to do for six weeks in the middle of February. They were all important. When I came here ? tip of the iceberg at Central was in the faculty senate with the exception, of course, of noticeable? I felt in the physical sciences. The challenge of ? of the faculty senate and its meetings, the agendas I thought were really strong on the part of the faculty members. I always felt that the administrators were reactive and just not quite up to their speed.

Putnam: What about academic freedom? Did you have any problem with that do you think or was that pretty well functioning well?

Fisher: Well I have a tie on now, academically free. But I did it with the rest of them. I wore sweaters. I thought it was a little - as for the times, a little negative with respect to some things. There was a prof on campus here who broke out some marijuana in the classroom under the guise of academic freedom. That wasn’t my bag and we have to have, of course, we must have academic freedom, I think, by definition but I don’t have any strong thoughts one way or the other.

Putnam: Well, you had mentioned the faculty senate. What about the town/gown relationship? How do you think the?

Fisher: Couldn’t be worse.

Putnam: Has it always been the same or has it changed since you first came?

Fisher: Well, I’m a farm boy from Bellingham. Lived in a farm elsewhere in my life. When I came to this time town - and also every summer have been a flight instructor at the airport so in the summertime you have a foot over here when you meet the locals and then during the academic year you are back up here with the scholars. A lot of the locals, particularly those dependent on agriculture, have strong negative feelings about the campus.

Putnam: Can you tell me why you think they do?

Fisher: Well the arbitrary nature of the behavior of some of the faculty members. Everyone up here has a ?. Farmers and agriculturists depend heavily - their life and their survival depends upon the crops. I saw an interesting bumper sticker the other day that said, “Be kind to the environment, live in town.” But the farmers make fun of the college profs and the college profs, of course, can’t help but consider some of the locals country bumpkins, which they are. I’ve had - I’ve been in kind of both worlds. I’ve been picking banjo with an old time fiddlers group for the last 15 years and we go to the grange dance or to whatever and they can’t believe it. “Oh that banjo picker, he’s one of them college guys.” But I don’t think it’s good. Maybe it can’t be good. The business men in town respond positively to college people but I don’t think - farmers would just as soon have the state prison rather than a state college - normal school. Any day. I couldn’t say it couldn’t be worse but I don’t think the town/gown thing here is friendly at all. End of comment on that one.

Putnam: Okay, what about - we’ve done a lot of long range planning at Central. Do you have any strong feelings about that?

Fisher: Me?

Putnam: Yes, you.

Fisher: Well, I’ve been out of the fast lane now for ten years. It takes a while to get out of the fast lane. I’m going to make a little movement here so come here. ? I don’t know.

Putnam: I do know that during the course - because I came in 1967 as well and I do know that they had many exercises in long range planning like ?

Fisher: Well the long range plan really? There was a thing and there probably still are from the office of research ? Well I was in on this expanding aviation thing in the ‘60’s and there was money every year. Two people would fly in the same airplane, three seats, ?, design something other than Morse code and I was in touch because of Wes Crum with the national leadership on three or four organizations - Civil Air Patrol, Aerospace Council, Federation Aviation, Association of State Aeronautics Officials. Wes was in touch with all of those people and he took me there and there was always money. “Yeah, we have $10,000, Fisher, for summer of ‘71,” but the policy here on campus was that 60% goes directly to the graduate school research office and you don’t get - the researcher didn’t get any money himself or herself. The research money that came to you was a replacement for your summer school wages. Virtually no one could proceed under those conditions, just ego considerations and so there was a mixture of planning and research. I guess I don’t have any strong opinions.

Putnam: The next thing on the list is academic organization which moved from divisions to departments. In terms of academic organization, do you have anything to say about? Do you recall being involved in any way?

Fisher: No, I thought it was - I thought Jim Brooks probably had a good idea when they changed the name to state college. I failed to see, personally, how the title of a university was any more desirable except as a window dressing. We were largely the same people the year after as the year before although we probably are different now. Different in the case of Western Washington University in Bellingham. I went there and they have aggressively developed their school and have several doctoral programs and are proportionately and I agree top of the line in two or three different areas and here in Ellensburg - here at Central, we haven’t had that intellectual savvy. That’s my opinion. My opinion only.

Putnam: Now, what about publish or perish thing that we talk about particularly when we are talking about merit? Do you have anything to say about that?

Fisher: Well, I had a discussion the other day among four or five retired faculty members and they couldn’t agree with me that we were after all scholars. If faculty members ? one of them or if they can’t collectively decide that yes they are ? scholars they can’t - who is a scholar? I’ve been a man of letters for a long time. I’ve written lots of stuff and I’ve published here, not recognized. Nobody wants to see it. Being clever with words is one thing, but writing something of import is something else. I felt the publish or perish was a pat phrase for - I think should be changed because perish is not the alternative. Publish has to be under certain conditions. I know one of the - Darwin Goody, a friend of mine from the psych department ? some other researcher here - some other person here on campus had published a thing in psychology that had to do with rats and he showed me the article. Part of the article, “Similar results were found by,” and there were 26 names with parallel results. Only one of those names was a Central faculty member. So he said that everyone got credit for publishing that. So the publish for one thing was what’s a researchable question? What’s a reasonable researchable question and who does - where do you get it published? But that was the thing with which we lived and it probably will remain that way.

Putnam: More on that same line, what about research versus teaching?

Fisher: When I think of a researcher, I think that goes with the job of teaching with me. I did several things for the FAA. One was the a particular study of the performance on written exams for commercial pilots, an item analysis, you know, a fact analysis. A whole bundle of ways at looking at the reliability of the test and in the course of those ten years ? different ? and so when they had the 16 - the new computer here? so I just punched in all that stuff and got a nice little result that the performance on the written tests over a ten year period for the commercial pilots of airplanes had gone from two hours and eleven minutes down to one hour and four minutes. Why one can’t say but that was not publishable. It didn’t merit anything here. At least Erickson didn’t think so but the research - the faculty and teacher is research. We’re always looking for a better way. I have to say something. I know a teacher that was popular at one time when I was in high school teaching high school. He said, “Well Mr. Fisher, you said it three different times now and they still don’t get it. The only way they can say it differently is louder and that won’t help.” Anyway, so I think a classroom teacher is a researcher whether they publish or not.

Putnam: Let’s move on here. What about hiring policies and practices? I know you mentioned ?

Fisher: Hiring policies?

Putnam: Hiring policies.

Fisher: Do you mean for faculty?

Putnam: Yes, for faculty.

Fisher: I don’t know. I really don’t. Those in charge read their letters. There are some purely outstanding negative cases, Dean Gilliam was one. The strange thing is some people are on their way up. Been here for a couple years and get a promotion. Apparently in the computer industry a few years ago the average stay at a job was 14 months. They were getting promoted and going on through. The policies here, I think, have not been other than the best they could do with the exception that the national search as an old guy, retired these are some of my thoughts, a national search which is a now the politically correct thing to do for whatever reasons produces nothing better than selection of a local. Now that’s people from Bellingham, Boston, and Wazzu.

Putnam: Why do you think that?

Fisher: On the performances of the people who were found in a national search.

Putnam:

Fisher: I need to mention no names but I will. This is my moment in the sun, you know, so I can tell the truth.

Putnam: Yes, yes. That’s what you’re supposed to do and I will give you an opportunity to come back to anything that we haven’t covered here. What about the faculty organizations that you belonged to. Were you a member of unions, AFT, AAUP, whatever? Were you involved in any of those?

Fisher: Not to any degree and that’s to my detriment. The teacher’s union - the teachers formed a union in Yakima in 1961 when I was there and everybody got a $500 raise. On a $4000 base. This profession is not militant. ? For a faculty organization, I felt at times I was very busy and I was. There was somebody else in charge. Not that I didn’t do my job and my share but I was real busy.

Putnam: Let’s switch a little bit here. Let’s go back to some things. Were you a recipient of any awards or honors while you were here?

Fisher: A whole lot of them from elsewhere but none at Central.

Putnam: Can you mention some of the ones that you received?

Fisher: They are not perceived as an honor.

Putnam: Well what ones would you mention?

Fisher: Well, one of the things that happened to me was - well I’ve edited several little modest little mathematics things. I love the word processor because you can get it right after - get a perfect page. I was also active in the examining. I have been an examiner for the State Aeronautics Board for model rocket launchers. I was an examiner for the Federal Aviation people for commercial license. Provided instruction certificate for airplanes. Those are not lightly granted to anyone and I did that for years. Did that in Walla Walla before I came here and after I came here and then I was an examiner for written tests. That’s when your signature represents the U.S. government and none of that held any water and no one would listen when I was here at Central. So I have to give Central the big finger on that.

Putnam: You had mentioned earlier that you had made some contribution that you have made to curriculum development. Can you elaborate on that? What kind of contributions did you make while you were at Central?

Fisher: Wow. Well, the biggest one was work like hell.

Putnam: But specifically tell us the kinds of things that you accomplished.

Fisher: Well, I had the same star in the horizon that Wes Crum did that nobody else had and that was ? to this very lucrative profession or job of airline pilot should probably be on a campus somewhere so we did that. It took about 15 or 20 years.

Putnam: So you developed a degree program or a certificate program? What was

Fisher: Well it started off - there were four courses in the Central catalog for 1966 which was - there were two one set of courses and two two set of courses, the Air Navigation and Meteorology and Theory of Flight and Regulations and that just barely covered the rudiments of a lot of training. There is a lot more that exists. I’ve been to the Air Force pilot training school. I went through that for a year so I had all sorts of content. I’d been through a math major along with a scientific minor and then I had been Ham radio. I all sorts of stuff to tell so we discussed taking it from my head into the catalog.

Putnam: So you started out then with the four courses and you developed other courses. You continued to develop courses each year.

Fisher: Yes.

Putnam: How could you do that when you were the only one?

Fisher: With no secretary. I was a pretty good typist. But I had a lot of inspiration. A lot of positive feedback from the crocodiles. There was a lot of work but there were national meetings. There was enough money to go to a national meeting. You find out all sorts of things.

Putnam: Well getting back to these contributions. So you developed this curriculum. You ultimately developed enough courses so that you ended up with a degree in flight.

Fisher: Wound up with three academics majors which have been modified and which had to be modified but it was a bachelors of science degree in - it was a B.S. from Central not a bachelor of arts and not a teaching certificate.

Putnam: ?

Fisher: It used to be Aerospace Science, now it’s Flight Technology but there never was a catalog major. Dean Schliesman was the person who was the undergraduate dean for all of those 12 to 14 years. He signed all of those individual - individually promulgated academic majors with various different names and it was his wisdom that it not go to any curriculum committee and become a catalog major.

Putnam: What was in the catalog? A series of courses?

Fisher: A whole bunch of courses. They were developed. There was some help somewhere I imagine but we did various things from Astronautics and Vector Analysis couldn’t ? but yes, the whole catalog - I left there in 1980.

Putnam: You left where?

Fisher: I was reassigned from flight technology to Academic Skills Center and that was a promotion - not a promotion but a change of jobs. No raise in pay but just a different job.

Putnam: What - you mentioned some committees that you served on, what are some of the committees that you served on? Were you ever in the senate?

Fisher: Yes, I think I was a senator three terms. I was also on several departmental committees like ROTC would have somebody - three or four people together to look at something. I was on a school personnel committee a couple times. I was on a dean search committee when they chose Jimmy Applegate - no, when Ed chose Jimmy Applegate and discharged the committee after?. I thought the committee approach - were not - they were about as collegial as you can get.

Putnam: Which campus committees, maybe not ones that you served on, but which committees were the most significant to contribute toward our progress? Do you have any committees in which you were involved?

Fisher: I have no knowledge - I don’t think I have enough background to make an informed opinion.

Putnam: Um

Fisher: I should say ? in other words there is always time for practice and I didn’t do that but I heard that uttered with reference to collegiality, he worked here on campus.

Putnam: Are there any - what programs or activities on campus did you feel were maybe some of the ones that Central was noted for? Can you think of any programs that were outstanding?

Fisher: There were a couple false starts. One of them was the bachelor of liberal arts degree which involved training highly trained specialists. It was an upside down B.A. degree. Take some specialist out of the military or the government with a tremendous knowledge of radar or some other such and they give him a liberal arts program in two years which would really be the first two years you give him that liberal arts degree. That started off and flew for a while and then the institution saw fit to put it in other hands and I started that but of course never - Schliesman and Cummings did the paper work. I think the nursing program I was aware of that had some of those people in math class. Well spoken students. I was in the dentist’s office the other day and on the wall was a certificate from Central something Tech program. It’s not a four year degree but its for professional preparation.

Putnam: Now do you think - were there were any programs - were there any that you didn’t feel were justified?

Fisher: Well, football.

Putnam: We’re talking about academic programs, not extra curricular programs. Let’s talk about those programs that were actually funded - that were part of the catalog.

Fisher: Well I was a farm boy and the things I did in school were track - you know the fields - running and the other sports I had to go home and milk so - even as a high school teacher I knew it was important but I don’t know, the non extra curricular I - not in particular.

Putnam: I don’t think you had any - none of your family - none of your relatives or anything or other family members were associated with Central, were they?

Fisher: My ex-wife took a masters degree here.

Putnam: Okay.

Fisher: That, by the way, was a bad mistake getting divorced after 40 years. Different story.

Putnam: What did she get her masters degree in?

Fisher: She’s a teacher and we had a good thing, a good thing –

Putnam: Was it in a particular area?

Fisher: Yeah, it was in reading.

Putnam: Reading specialist?

Fisher: Yeah, really sharp. Both of our children went to Central shortly, briefly. My daughter Roseanne is down here right across the street doing Hair by Roseanne. I’m becoming famous as the father of Roseanne. But both - I have to say something, both our kids were really in dog days in high school but both of them as seniors came up here and took a course on campus. I think both of them - there was one in ‘78 and one in ‘81 - both of them were ? - stayed in school, were interested, challenged up here and otherwise I don’t think they would have finished high school. They had two teachers as parents but - the fact that Central let them in without their high school diploma kept them on the academic track for a little while longer.

Putnam: As we close the interview, do you have anything that you have not covered that you would like to say before we stop? I might have rushed you through some things.

Fisher: Was I ever an administrator?

Putnam: I didn’t ask you that.

Fisher: The answer is no.

Putnam: I assumed you were at least administering the flight program.

Fisher: That is the name for me that is somewhere between needles and sickness. I would never be an administrator.

Putnam: You would never be ? enough.

Fisher: That’s the truth. Very recently, two years ago, coach James at UW resigned because of some hassle with the International ? Team and he had had it up to here and the board of trustees or whatever it was - the administrators said, “We thought coach James overreacted,” you know, that’s like saying the stars are still in the sky. What else do they say - all they have - all an administrator has is words. They have no personal security, he has no ideas, he has no - he has lots of stuff vested in his ego and as a rule he doesn’t have much imagination. But he had authority. There is no way - I can’t even think of a good enough bad word - four letter word to describe those dudes or even a twelve letter word. There is no way - not all of them are like that but the operations - this is my two minutes. This is not the two minute hate, it’s the two minute heck. This is a small complex institution. Four or five layers of authority and the security - I hate to say that word over but it’s true. The personal security of the chief executive affects everything all the way down. The classroom teachers and the janitors and you can look at them - now we have a new president here this Nelson. I thought he would be a great president. He’s an organic chemist. He has a social agenda. We’ve had several other presidents who were into something completely different. We had one ex president that died of lung cancer because of cirrhosis of the liver. Anyway, the nature of the chief executive has tremendous importance on the operation of a place and the selection process ? the nature of the beast. As long as it’s political there is not?. I was on the faculty at another college in Walla Walla where the chief executive was an insurance person and there was some great cooperation all the way around there. I’ve been to two other institutions - I have been there where things worked well but I’m not sure it’s in the cards. I’m just saying my opinion.

Putnam: The nature of the beast.

Fisher: The nature of the beast. We are going to have tension and stress.

Putnam:

Fisher: It’s possible. It’s possible though. I personally, I have been successful. It takes a special kind of weird missionary to get people pumped up on this particular thing. Whether it’s a math club or a flying club or whatever. Some of these people have a ? club. So it’s just - we need a different process. Not to train those people but to find them.

Putnam: Well, do you want to look any further there in your –

Fisher: No, I’m all through, thank you.

Putnam: You’re all through. Do you have any last words about your experience at

Central or anything that you would like to add?

Fisher: No.

Putnam: You are done. Well Lee, we thank you very much for coming today and offering your ideas.

Fisher: Thank you for the chance.